1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,920 All right. So today we're diving into something that's super relevant, 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,680 making the digital world work for everyone, 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,000 especially folks who are visually impaired. 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:13,760 We're taking a deep dive into some really insightful articles and blog posts 5 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,840 from this German organization, the Gezellschaft, Sir, 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,840 and Wichlin von Dingen. Okay. 7 00:00:19,840 --> 00:00:24,760 And they've got some really interesting points about digital accessibility, 8 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:29,600 you know, like how even simple things online, if you can't see the screen, 9 00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,040 it can be a real challenge. Yeah, absolutely. 10 00:00:32,040 --> 00:00:33,320 Like the first one we are looking at here, 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:36,600 they talk about data tables and now before you totally tune out thinking 12 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,920 sketch sheets, who cares? Right. It turns out, 13 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:44,240 like for someone who's using a screen reader to actually use the internet, 14 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,840 data tables can be like a total nightmare because instead of just reading, 15 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,440 like, you know, row by row, 16 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,800 some screen readers will announce each cell individually. 17 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,120 So it'd be like column four, row three on and on. Oh, I see. Yeah. 18 00:00:57,480 --> 00:01:00,720 Imagine trying to keep track of any of that, especially on a really big table. 19 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,840 Yeah, that makes sense. It's like one of those things you just, 20 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,440 you totally take for granted if you're just looking at it, right? 21 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,040 Totally. You can visually scan it. It's organized, 22 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,720 but when you have to listen to it like that, it'd be impossible. Yeah. 23 00:01:11,720 --> 00:01:12,600 It'd be really tough. 24 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:17,760 And this article really digs into how important proper table structure is. 25 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,240 And this is where I kind of get lost. What does that even mean? 26 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:25,920 So it all comes down to how developers use HTML, right? 27 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,320 Which is the language behind web pages to actually build these tables. Okay. 28 00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:35,360 And there are specific HTML elements for like headers for the body of the table, 29 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,920 rows, cells, and these act as instructions basically for the screen reader. 30 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,040 Oh, okay. So when it's done right, 31 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:47,960 it's like you're giving the screen reader a clear roadmap. Okay. 32 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,760 So it can present all that information logically. 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:51,280 So it was like, 34 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,880 instead of giving someone a whole box of puzzle pieces all jumbled up, 35 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,560 you organize them by, you know, their shape and their color. Exactly. 36 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,240 And then they can actually put it together. It makes all the difference. 37 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,760 The information's all there. It's just how it's presented. Exactly. Yeah. 38 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:09,880 So then they go on and they talk about online forms, 39 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:14,560 which can be like a whole other obstacle course apparently for someone who's 40 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:15,440 visually impaired. 41 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:20,760 And they open with this anecdote about someone trying to like order food online. 42 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:25,000 Okay. And just hitting a wall and it just makes you realize like, 43 00:02:25,020 --> 00:02:27,040 why should that be so difficult? Yeah. 44 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:32,960 It's interesting how many things that sighted users just take for granted. 45 00:02:32,960 --> 00:02:37,080 Like, I don't know, like labels on the fields in the form, you know, right? 46 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:41,840 Knowing which ones are required, getting those little helpful error messages. 47 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,680 Those things are often missing or just totally inaccessible to a screen reader. 48 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,520 So you're just like left in the dark. Literally. Yeah. 49 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,560 You have no idea if you're even filling out the form correctly. One thing they 50 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,760 mention here, it's called A R I A attributes. Yes. 51 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,520 I'm assuming that's like adding an audio instructions almost to the website code 52 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:04,240 specifically for these screen readers. Am I on the right track? Yeah, 53 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,200 you're totally right. It's like little notes hidden in the code to give that 54 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,480 extra context. Okay. So for example, 55 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,160 ARIA required will flag a mandatory field and then something like ARIA 56 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:18,000 invalid that would give feedback if there's an error. Okay. 57 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:22,540 It's like those little audio cues in a video game that kind of guide the 58 00:03:22,540 --> 00:03:24,320 player along. You know what I mean? 59 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:25,780 It's amazing though, 60 00:03:25,780 --> 00:03:29,280 how those little things that most people wouldn't even notice can make it or 61 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,580 break it. For sure. Literally like determine whether you can order a pizza or 62 00:03:33,580 --> 00:03:36,600 not. Yeah. All right. Ready to switch gears a little bit. Yeah, let's do it. 63 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:40,880 Let's talk about screen readers themselves. So this next article, 64 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,440 it's all about JWS versus NVDA, 65 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,880 which are like two of the biggest names when it comes to screen reader for 66 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,740 Windows users, at least. And the interesting thing here is the author, 67 00:03:52,740 --> 00:03:55,780 they mostly use Macs and Linux. Okay. 68 00:03:55,780 --> 00:03:59,860 So they're coming at this from a total different perspective. Interesting. 69 00:03:59,860 --> 00:04:02,820 And one thing that really surprised them was they're like, wow, 70 00:04:02,820 --> 00:04:06,900 even though JWS is supposed to be like the best to the best, 71 00:04:06,900 --> 00:04:10,780 they were saying that it really struggled with open source software. Oh, 72 00:04:10,780 --> 00:04:14,380 interesting. Like even something like LibreOffice, you know, 73 00:04:14,380 --> 00:04:17,820 the free alternative to Microsoft office. Right. What's the deal with that? 74 00:04:17,900 --> 00:04:21,460 Yeah. So JWS is really powerful, 75 00:04:21,460 --> 00:04:25,460 but it relies a lot on these custom scripts to work well with different 76 00:04:25,460 --> 00:04:29,460 applications. Okay. Especially anything outside of the mainstream, you know, 77 00:04:29,460 --> 00:04:34,020 like open source software. It's kind of like, you need a special adapter. 78 00:04:34,020 --> 00:04:37,020 Every time you travel to a new country or something, 79 00:04:37,020 --> 00:04:41,320 it's just a little bit of a hassle and sometimes you just can't even find the 80 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:46,100 right one. And that can be a real barrier for users, especially, you know, 81 00:04:46,100 --> 00:04:49,540 in professional settings, maybe where they rely on those open source options. 82 00:04:49,540 --> 00:04:53,140 Yeah. And, and maybe where they don't have the biggest budgets to work with, 83 00:04:53,140 --> 00:04:57,660 exactly. Do all this extra adaptation for software and stuff like accessibility 84 00:04:57,660 --> 00:05:02,180 is like an afterthought. Right. Right. Unfortunately it can be like they just 85 00:05:02,180 --> 00:05:05,900 tacked it on later rather than building it in from the ground up. Yes. 86 00:05:05,900 --> 00:05:09,700 But there are some encouraging, encouraging trends, I guess, 87 00:05:09,700 --> 00:05:11,020 in the other direction. Like what? 88 00:05:11,180 --> 00:05:16,180 So this article actually goes on to really praise NVDA and a large part of 89 00:05:16,180 --> 00:05:17,820 that is that it's open source. Okay. 90 00:05:17,820 --> 00:05:22,380 The author actually raved about its speed, how customizable it is. 91 00:05:22,380 --> 00:05:26,300 And obviously the fact that it's free is a huge win for many people. 92 00:05:26,300 --> 00:05:29,820 That makes a lot of sense because when something's free and it's open source, 93 00:05:29,820 --> 00:05:33,420 that means more people can contribute to making it better. 94 00:05:33,420 --> 00:05:37,180 Precisely and more adaptable. Yeah. Exactly. And so, you know, 95 00:05:37,180 --> 00:05:40,540 this article, it's more than just praising NVDA. 96 00:05:40,540 --> 00:05:44,620 It's really calling for this broader support for open source solutions when it 97 00:05:44,620 --> 00:05:48,020 comes to accessibility. Okay. Yeah. You know, because with open source, 98 00:05:48,020 --> 00:05:52,340 everyone has the potential to access the code, modify it, 99 00:05:52,340 --> 00:05:56,540 make it more adaptable for their needs. It's like the difference between, 100 00:05:56,540 --> 00:05:59,340 you know, a bespoke suit. Okay. 101 00:05:59,340 --> 00:06:03,420 That's tailored to you versus trying to find something off the rack that sort of 102 00:06:03,420 --> 00:06:07,060 fits. Right. It's like one size fits all doesn't work when it comes to tech, 103 00:06:07,060 --> 00:06:10,140 especially in this, like, you know, the digital world. Right. Exactly. 104 00:06:10,140 --> 00:06:10,980 And it actually, 105 00:06:10,980 --> 00:06:15,180 this ties into the bigger picture of digital accessibility that I think these 106 00:06:15,180 --> 00:06:17,680 articles have been, you know, kind of exploring. 107 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:22,100 It's more than just like checking boxes to be like, oh yeah, we're compliant. 108 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:26,780 It's really about understanding that like the digital world can be experienced 109 00:06:26,780 --> 00:06:30,860 in fundamentally different ways by people with different, you know, 110 00:06:30,860 --> 00:06:33,460 abilities. And we have to think about that from the very beginning. 111 00:06:33,460 --> 00:06:37,820 A hundred percent. Yeah. Building that empathy into the online experience. 112 00:06:37,820 --> 00:06:39,980 I love that building empathy into the experience. 113 00:06:39,980 --> 00:06:42,980 It's about like belonging. Yeah. 114 00:06:42,980 --> 00:06:47,620 Like making sure everyone feels welcome and like they can participate. 115 00:06:47,620 --> 00:06:51,860 Exactly. Exactly. It's like, we forget that these online spaces, 116 00:06:51,860 --> 00:06:55,660 they're just extensions of our physical world and they should reflect those same 117 00:06:55,660 --> 00:06:59,260 values, right? Like inclusivity, respect, all of that. 118 00:06:59,260 --> 00:07:04,380 You know, it makes you think if something as simple as a data table can 119 00:07:04,380 --> 00:07:05,620 pose such a challenge, 120 00:07:05,700 --> 00:07:10,300 what other aspects of the digital world are we just totally overlooking? 121 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:13,780 It's the million dollar question, isn't it? Because we do, 122 00:07:13,780 --> 00:07:17,540 we often design with a very specific type of user in mind, right? Right. 123 00:07:17,540 --> 00:07:20,940 We assume everyone can see perfectly. They can hear everything. Exactly. Exactly. 124 00:07:20,940 --> 00:07:25,820 So what about, you know, users who are deaf or hard of hearing, right? 125 00:07:25,820 --> 00:07:29,780 What about folks with motor impairments who might not even be able to use a 126 00:07:29,780 --> 00:07:32,100 mouse? Yeah. Or people who, you know, 127 00:07:32,540 --> 00:07:36,320 cognitive differences where it's hard to process a lot of information at once. 128 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:39,420 Exactly. Are we designing with their needs in mind? 129 00:07:39,420 --> 00:07:42,740 It's like we've built this incredible interconnected digital world, 130 00:07:42,740 --> 00:07:47,900 but we've unintentionally put all these barriers up that prevents so many 131 00:07:47,900 --> 00:07:51,620 people from experiencing it. And it's not just about inconvenience, right? No, 132 00:07:51,620 --> 00:07:55,380 not at all. It's about equal access to information, to education, 133 00:07:55,380 --> 00:07:59,980 even just like connecting with people. 100%. Yeah. Job opportunities. 134 00:07:59,980 --> 00:08:04,460 It's everything. Yeah. And those are like fundamental rights. Exactly. Yeah. 135 00:08:04,460 --> 00:08:07,620 They really are. So how do we, where do we even start? Well, 136 00:08:07,620 --> 00:08:09,700 I think it starts with awareness, honestly, 137 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:13,340 recognizing that accessibility is not just a technical thing. 138 00:08:13,340 --> 00:08:16,780 It's not just a box to check. It's not a legal requirement. 139 00:08:16,780 --> 00:08:19,300 It's a fundamental human right. Like you said, 140 00:08:19,300 --> 00:08:22,540 it really highlights that human element of it all. Doesn't it? It does. 141 00:08:22,540 --> 00:08:23,940 It's about empathy, you know, 142 00:08:23,940 --> 00:08:28,820 really stepping into someone else's shoes to understand the challenges they face 143 00:08:28,820 --> 00:08:32,780 online. Precisely. Yeah. And it's not enough to just understand, 144 00:08:32,780 --> 00:08:37,100 it requires action. It means advocating for inclusive design, 145 00:08:37,100 --> 00:08:40,220 supporting organizations that are prioritizing this, 146 00:08:40,220 --> 00:08:43,940 calling out barriers when we see them. So we all have a part to play in this. 147 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:46,580 Absolutely we do. And it doesn't always require, you know, 148 00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:50,220 these grand gestures or these massive overhauls of everything. 149 00:08:50,220 --> 00:08:54,140 Sometimes the most impactful changes come from these small, 150 00:08:54,140 --> 00:08:55,940 but intentional steps, you know? 151 00:08:56,460 --> 00:09:00,620 So give us some examples. What are some things that are listeners, designers, 152 00:09:00,620 --> 00:09:03,780 developers, content creators, or even just everyday internet users? 153 00:09:03,780 --> 00:09:08,660 What can they do in their own lives to kind of contribute to a more accessible 154 00:09:08,660 --> 00:09:09,580 digital world? 155 00:09:09,580 --> 00:09:11,740 Well, I always say for starters, you know, 156 00:09:11,740 --> 00:09:15,420 take some time to learn about the principles of accessible design. 157 00:09:15,420 --> 00:09:19,300 There are tons of resources out there. The W3C, 158 00:09:19,300 --> 00:09:22,940 they have their web content accessibility guidelines, the WCK, 159 00:09:23,940 --> 00:09:28,540 there are articles, blog posts, videos by accessibility experts. 160 00:09:28,540 --> 00:09:30,300 So it starts with educating ourselves. 161 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:32,740 Exactly. A little bit of learning goes a long way. 162 00:09:32,740 --> 00:09:35,580 What else, what about for people who aren't, you know, 163 00:09:35,580 --> 00:09:37,180 designing websites or apps? 164 00:09:37,180 --> 00:09:40,220 Yeah. So if you're a content creator, for example, 165 00:09:40,220 --> 00:09:44,260 think about how you can make your work more accessible. So for videos, 166 00:09:44,260 --> 00:09:47,100 always include captions and transcripts, 167 00:09:47,100 --> 00:09:50,020 use descriptive alt text for images. 168 00:09:50,020 --> 00:09:52,140 So screen readers can actually describe them, 169 00:09:52,460 --> 00:09:55,140 structure your content in a clear, logical way. 170 00:09:55,140 --> 00:09:58,060 Actually that's just good practice in general, right? For SEO and everything else. 171 00:09:58,060 --> 00:10:01,180 Exactly. Accessible design often is just good design. 172 00:10:01,180 --> 00:10:02,580 It's a win-win. Exactly. 173 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:06,260 What about for folks who aren't creating content, what can they do? 174 00:10:06,260 --> 00:10:09,740 Be mindful of accessibility and your everyday interactions online. 175 00:10:09,740 --> 00:10:12,860 Like even something as simple as when you're sharing links on social media. 176 00:10:12,860 --> 00:10:17,260 Take a moment to actually include a brief description of what the link goes to. 177 00:10:17,260 --> 00:10:19,660 That way someone using a screen reader, 178 00:10:20,180 --> 00:10:22,700 they know what to expect before they click on it. Oh, that's a good one. 179 00:10:22,700 --> 00:10:26,660 I'm totally guilty of just copying and pasting links without even thinking twice. 180 00:10:26,660 --> 00:10:30,740 Yeah. It's a small change, but it makes a difference. And, you know, 181 00:10:30,740 --> 00:10:33,500 choose to support businesses, 182 00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:38,340 organizations that are prioritizing accessibility. Opt for those websites, 183 00:10:38,340 --> 00:10:40,980 those apps that are designed with that in mind. 184 00:10:40,980 --> 00:10:43,620 Let companies know that you value that. 185 00:10:43,620 --> 00:10:46,420 It's like voting with our wallets and our clicks. Exactly. 186 00:10:46,420 --> 00:10:49,780 And don't be afraid to speak up when you encounter a barrier, you know? 187 00:10:49,980 --> 00:10:53,380 Let these companies know when their websites or products are inaccessible, 188 00:10:53,380 --> 00:10:54,900 encourage them to do better. 189 00:10:54,900 --> 00:10:59,180 We have a voice and we should use it to advocate for positive change. 190 00:10:59,180 --> 00:11:00,260 Couldn't agree more. Yeah. 191 00:11:00,260 --> 00:11:02,660 This has been such an eye-opening conversation. 192 00:11:02,660 --> 00:11:06,420 As we wrap up our deep dive into digital accessibility, 193 00:11:06,420 --> 00:11:11,460 what's like the one key takeaway you want our listeners to remember? 194 00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:15,620 If I had to sum it up, I'd say accessibility is not an afterthought. 195 00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:19,140 It's a necessity. It's not about catering to special needs. 196 00:11:19,180 --> 00:11:21,940 It's about acknowledging the spectrum of human abilities 197 00:11:21,940 --> 00:11:26,060 and ensuring that everyone can participate fully in the digital world. 198 00:11:26,060 --> 00:11:29,740 It's about recognizing that the digital world, just like the physical world, 199 00:11:29,740 --> 00:11:32,100 should be built for everyone. Exactly. 200 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:36,980 When we create barriers that exclude even one person, we all lose out. 201 00:11:36,980 --> 00:11:39,260 So well said. And on that note, 202 00:11:39,260 --> 00:11:42,700 I want to encourage all our listeners to check out the Gezelschafter 203 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:44,300 in Ficklen von Dingens website. 204 00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:47,500 They've got a ton of resources on digital accessibility. Who knows? 205 00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:50,580 You might be inspired to become an advocate for change yourself. 206 00:11:50,580 --> 00:11:53,780 If you found this deep dive insightful, please share with your friends, 207 00:11:53,780 --> 00:11:55,900 family, colleagues, anyone who will listen. 208 00:11:55,900 --> 00:11:59,940 Spreading awareness is crucial for building a more inclusive online world. 209 00:11:59,940 --> 00:12:04,700 Until next time, keep exploring, keep questioning and keep diving deep.