1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:01,560 All right. So today we're going to, um, 2 00:00:01,560 --> 00:00:04,400 we're diving into something that's actually kind of surprising when you think 3 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:09,240 about it. Okay. Ordering food online. Yeah. Sounds simple enough, right? Right. 4 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,620 But it can be a real challenge for people with visual impairments. Exactly. 5 00:00:13,620 --> 00:00:15,960 You know, we're so used to just like scrolling through those menus on our 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,100 phones, uh, tapping away, but for someone who can't see those menus, 7 00:00:20,100 --> 00:00:21,880 it's a completely different story. Yeah. I have to admit, 8 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,000 I don't think I've ever really considered that before. Right. 9 00:00:24,000 --> 00:00:26,200 So to dig into this a little deeper, 10 00:00:26,240 --> 00:00:31,240 we're looking at some research from Gesellschaft zur Entwicklung von Dingen. 11 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:35,080 Yeah. G-A-E-V-D for short. Catchy. It is catchy. 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,720 They're a German organization that's doing some really cool work on digital 13 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:39,560 accessibility. 14 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,520 And what's really neat about their approach is they call it usability, 15 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,400 usability, usability. Yeah. 16 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:49,080 It's like a combination of usability and accessibility all rolled into one. 17 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,760 I like it. Okay. So tell me more about this usability. 18 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:54,800 How does it actually work in practice? 19 00:00:55,020 --> 00:00:59,880 So picture this. They bring in a colleague who is visually impaired, 20 00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:03,200 and they have him use these food delivery websites, just like you or I would. 21 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:07,000 Okay. They tested out five popular platforms, 22 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:11,880 Leafferando food Panda, call a pizza Walt and Uber eats. 23 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,480 Gotcha. So like the big names. Yeah, exactly. The usual suspects. 24 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:20,040 But here's where the usability part comes in as he's navigating the sites using 25 00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:23,720 his screen reader. He's talking out loud the whole time. Interesting. Yeah. 26 00:01:23,740 --> 00:01:28,000 He's sharing his thought process, every frustration, every obstacle he hits. 27 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,720 It's like getting a glimpse into a world that most of us as sighted users never 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,320 even have to think about precisely. So what did they find? 29 00:01:34,320 --> 00:01:37,160 Was our pizza loving friend able to actually order some dinner? 30 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:41,200 So here's the thing. Three out of the five platforms call a pizza pizza. 31 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:45,840 Uber eats and Walt were completely unusable for him. Whoa. Seriously. Seriously. 32 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,520 He just couldn't get through the process. 33 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:51,920 Imagine like hitting a wall because a form field wasn't labeled properly or a 34 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,120 button didn't give any indication that it had been clicked. Wow. 35 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:57,280 That's frustrating. Incredibly frustrating. 36 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,720 He was basically left stranded high and dry. No pizza for him. 37 00:02:00,720 --> 00:02:01,920 That's awful. 38 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:05,920 It really makes you realize how something we take for granted could be such an 39 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,120 ordeal for someone else. Absolutely. So, okay. 40 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,640 What about the other two platforms? Leaf Rondo and Food Panda? 41 00:02:12,640 --> 00:02:15,240 Were those any better? They worked, 42 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,160 but let's just say it wasn't exactly a smooth ride. Even on those platforms, 43 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:23,680 it took him a painful 20 to 40 minutes of battling with the websites just to get 44 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:26,240 an order through. Are you kidding? 40 minutes? I know. 45 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:29,200 Can you imagine being hungry and then having to wait that long just because of 46 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:32,840 bad website design? Talk about adding insult to injury. Right. 47 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,360 So the report mentioned some common design flaws that kept popping up. 48 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:39,320 Can you walk us through some of those? What were some of the main culprits? 49 00:02:39,320 --> 00:02:44,160 Yeah. So one of the biggest issues was poorly labeled form elements. 50 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,760 Okay. Like imagine a button that just says submit. Right. To you or me, 51 00:02:48,840 --> 00:02:52,800 the context might be obvious, but for someone using a screen reader, 52 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,480 that button is meaningless without a clear descriptive label. 53 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,480 It's like walking down a hallway of unmarked doors. 54 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,440 You have no idea what's behind each one. That's a great analogy. I get it. 55 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:07,720 It can be incredibly disorienting for sure. So labels are super important. 56 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,600 What other issues did they find? 57 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,480 Another really common problem was a lack of feedback after a button was pressed. 58 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,120 Oh, so you click a button and then nothing. Exactly. 59 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:21,840 You don't know if anything happened for someone who can't see the screen. 60 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:26,560 That confirmation is absolutely crucial. That makes sense. Yeah. Okay. 61 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,560 So we've got labels and feedback. What else? Oh, and this one's a big one. 62 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:33,960 Finding the shopping cart. It sounds simple enough, 63 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:37,880 but if it's not properly labeled and positioned within the website structure, 64 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,840 it can be like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Yeah, 65 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:43,400 I can see how that would be really annoying, 66 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,320 especially if you're hungry and just want to check out. Absolutely. 67 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:48,200 Anything else, or was that pretty much it? Well, 68 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,080 there's one more thing and it's a head scratcher. 69 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:54,040 Some of the websites actually switched languages in the middle of the ordering 70 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,040 process. Wait, you mean like mid sentence, 71 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,440 it would just switch to different language? Pretty much. 72 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,240 Imagine listening to everything in one language and suddenly bam, 73 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:03,720 it switches to another. Wow. That's just inconsiderate. 74 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:05,320 Incredibly disorienting, 75 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:09,280 especially for someone using a screen reader who might not be fluent in both 76 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:12,640 languages. It's just bad design all around. Wow. 77 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,960 It's amazing how such seemingly small oversights can create such huge 78 00:04:17,960 --> 00:04:19,800 barriers. It really is. 79 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,560 It's a good reminder that we as sighted users really do take for granted how easy 80 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:27,480 we have it when it comes to navigating the online world. 81 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:31,400 I think that's a really important point and it highlights why clear headings, 82 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:35,600 intuitive design and proper coding are so crucial for making sure websites are 83 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:39,320 accessible to everyone. It's not just about following some abstract guidelines. 84 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,840 It's about making sure that everyone, regardless of their abilities, 85 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,120 can fully participate in our increasingly digital world. 86 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,360 And that actually brings us to something I wanted to touch on before we move on 87 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,920 to the next part. This isn't just about ordering pizza, right? 88 00:04:51,920 --> 00:04:55,240 This has implications for so many other aspects of our lives. 89 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:59,320 But before we dive into that, let's take a quick break to hear from our sponsors. 90 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,480 So we're back and you know, 91 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,840 it's really made me think differently about something as everyday as ordering 92 00:05:04,840 --> 00:05:08,680 takeout. Yeah. It really puts things in perspective. It does. 93 00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,640 And as we were saying before the break, this goes way beyond just food. 94 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,440 Right. Absolutely. When we talk about digital inclusion, 95 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:20,760 we're talking about access to everything, information, essential services, 96 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,800 the ability to connect with others, all those things that make life, you know, 97 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,000 worth living. Exactly. And more and more of those things are happening online. 98 00:05:29,000 --> 00:05:30,600 Right. Exactly. It's like you said, 99 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,360 it's about being able to fully participate in society. That's it. 100 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:35,440 That's the heart of it. 101 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,680 So how does GEVD actually help make that happen? 102 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:39,240 Well, 103 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,280 one of the really cool things they do is provide accessibility testing and consulting to 104 00:05:43,280 --> 00:05:44,540 companies. Oh, interesting. 105 00:05:44,540 --> 00:05:48,400 So they work directly with these companies to make their websites and apps more 106 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:49,640 accessible. Exactly. 107 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:53,800 They'll do a deep dive into a company's digital products and pinpoint exactly 108 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:55,880 where they're falling short on accessibility. 109 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,360 So they're like digital accessibility detectives. 110 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,880 I like that, but they don't just point out the problems. 111 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:03,840 They actually offer solutions. 112 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:08,080 They work with the companies to help them understand how to make their products 113 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:10,640 truly inclusive. So it's a collaborative process. 114 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,400 It is. And they're also big on just raising awareness about these issues, 115 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:17,960 because sometimes it really is just a lack of understanding that leads to these 116 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,820 oversights. I can see that. I mean, I like to think I'm pretty tech savvy, 117 00:06:21,820 --> 00:06:26,680 but I'll admit accessibility wasn't really something I thought about much when it 118 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,320 came to website design before we started looking into this. Right. 119 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:30,960 And most people don't. And that's okay. 120 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,880 It's not always on our radar until we experience those barriers firsthand. 121 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:39,320 But thankfully there are laws in place to help make sure digital inclusion isn't 122 00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,840 just a nice idea. It's actually a requirement. Yeah, you're right. 123 00:06:42,840 --> 00:06:44,520 I remember reading about that in the research. 124 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,280 Can you remind us what those laws say? Sure. So in many countries, 125 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:53,280 including Germany, where G E E E V D is based websites and digital services are 126 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:56,840 legally required to be accessible to people with disabilities. 127 00:06:56,840 --> 00:07:00,320 So there are actual legal consequences for not making websites accessible. 128 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,360 That's right. It's based on the understanding that in today's world, 129 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,360 equal access online is a fundamental right. 130 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:09,720 Just like access to physical spaces should be. That makes sense. 131 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:11,680 So it's not just about doing the right thing. 132 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,200 It's about complying with the law. Exactly. 133 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:15,800 Even beyond the legal reasons, 134 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,520 I bet there are some pretty good business reasons for companies to make 135 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:22,360 accessibility a priority. Oh, absolutely. From an ethical standpoint, 136 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:23,800 it's simply the right thing to do. 137 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,280 Everyone deserves equal access regardless of their abilities. 138 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:29,320 But then there's also the business case. 139 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:31,640 When you create a more inclusive experience, 140 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,800 you're naturally going to attract a wider customer base. Right. 141 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,320 You're not excluding a significant chunk of potential customers just because of 142 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:40,920 bad design. Precisely. 143 00:07:40,920 --> 00:07:44,680 And studies have actually shown that accessible design leads to higher 144 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,320 customer satisfaction and loyalty across the board. That's interesting. 145 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,680 So it's not just the right thing to do. It's also good for business. Exactly. 146 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,520 It's a win-win. When a website is designed with accessibility in mind, 147 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:59,720 it just makes it better for everyone. It's clearer, more intuitive, 148 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,200 easier to use. It's like you said earlier, 149 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:05,840 good design is accessible design. Exactly. 150 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:10,160 And that brings us back to GEVD and why their work is so important. 151 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:14,160 They're advocating for a better internet for everyone. Absolutely. 152 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,520 A more inclusive digital landscape for all. 153 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:20,800 So how can our listeners learn more about GEVD and the work that they do? 154 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:25,440 They have a great website with tons of information. You'll find articles, 155 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,000 case studies, details about their services. 156 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:32,280 It's all geared towards creating a more inclusive digital world. Awesome. 157 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:34,880 We'll definitely put a link to their website in the show notes for this 158 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:37,480 episode. Now, before we wrap things up, 159 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,960 I wanted to circle back to something that really struck me and that's how 160 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,320 something as simple as ordering food, 161 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:48,280 something most of us never even think twice about can be such a major hurdle for 162 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,840 someone who is visually impaired. Yeah, it is eyeopening, isn't it? 163 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:52,800 It really is. 164 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,000 It's a good reminder that accessibility isn't just about these big grand 165 00:08:57,000 --> 00:09:00,120 gestures. It's about paying attention to the little things, 166 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:03,560 considering how every design choice impacts everyone. 167 00:09:03,560 --> 00:09:04,880 That's such a crucial point. 168 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:08,880 Accessibility isn't about creating special features for a select few. 169 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:12,320 It's about designing with everyone in mind right from the very start. 170 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:13,480 And that brings us to, 171 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,640 it really makes you think about all the little things we take for granted when 172 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:17,200 we're online. 173 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:18,880 It really does. And the more we talk about it, 174 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,200 the more aware we become of these issues because at the end of the day, 175 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,800 it's about creating a more equitable society for everyone, 176 00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:27,360 both online and offline. 177 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,240 Absolutely. So as we wrap up our deep dive today, 178 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,520 what's the one thing you hope our listeners take away from this conversation? 179 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:39,240 I'd say the most important thing is to remember that accessibility is everyone's 180 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:41,520 responsibility. Okay. I like that. 181 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,640 It's not just on designers or developers. 182 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,840 It's something we should all be thinking about and advocating for. You know, 183 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:50,320 the next time you're on a website or using an app, 184 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:54,840 take a second to think about how someone with a disability might experience it. 185 00:09:54,920 --> 00:09:58,040 That's a great point. Put yourself in their shoes. Exactly. 186 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,680 Could they easily navigate it? Could they access all the content? 187 00:10:01,680 --> 00:10:05,200 Would it be a seamless experience or a frustrating one? 188 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,800 Those are really important questions to be asking. 189 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:12,640 And for those of you listening who are involved in designing or building websites, 190 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,280 I really encourage you to do your research. Learn about accessibility, 191 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:17,120 best practices. 192 00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:21,000 There are tons of resources available online and it's worth it. Trust me. 193 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,920 Yeah. It's an investment and a more inclusive future for everyone. Well said. 194 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:30,720 Well, on that note, it's time for us to sign off a huge thank you to GECDD 195 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,280 for the amazing work they're doing to make the digital world a more inclusive 196 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:37,520 place. Absolutely fantastic work. And to all our listeners out there, 197 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:39,680 thank you for joining us on this deep dive. 198 00:10:39,680 --> 00:10:43,120 We hope you learned something new today and that you'll keep exploring the world 199 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,520 with a curious mind until next time.