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Welcome back, everybody, to another Deep Dive.

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And today we're gonna be looking into something

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that could really change the future of music.

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It's called C3S.

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You actually sent me over some research on this,

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and I gotta say, it's really fascinating stuff.

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Yeah, it's exciting stuff to think about.

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Imagine if you had one organization

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that could handle music rights for songs,

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whether they were released under traditional copyright

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or Creative Commons licenses,

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or even just those free-to-use tracks that you find online,

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and that's what C3S is trying to do.

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It's a European cooperative.

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It's like a one-stop shop for music rights.

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But how is this different from the big

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traditional music rights organizations,

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the ones we've all heard of?

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Well, I think the main difference is that

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it really tries to put the power back

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in the hands of the artists.

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With those traditional organizations,

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they can feel like these big black boxes.

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Oh yeah, I know what you mean.

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You don't really know what's going on.

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How is your music being used?

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How am I being compensated?

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C3S is designed to be really transparent and democratic.

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So every member, and that means the musicians themselves,

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they all get an equal vote in how the organization is run.

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That's pretty different.

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It's not like the old way where it's all about gatekeepers.

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Exactly.

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And you have to jump through all these hoops

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just to get your music heard or licensed.

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But how does that actually work?

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I mean, can artists actually choose

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which works they want C3S to manage?

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Yeah, totally.

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There's no requirement that you have to give them

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all of your music.

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You could have some of your music

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with a traditional publisher,

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maybe like your more commercial stuff.

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And then have C3S handle, say, your experimental tracks

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that you release under a Creative Commons license.

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That kind of flexibility you just don't really see

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in the traditional music industry.

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Yeah, that level of control must be really empowering

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for artists, especially ones who are just straightening out

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or who wanna kind of experiment

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with different licensing models.

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Almost like leveling the playing field a little bit.

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Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

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And this whole idea of challenging the status quo,

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it actually reminds me of something

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that composer Hans Sommer said way back in the day.

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And I might be paraphrasing a bit,

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but he basically called musicians wage slaves

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to the big publishers.

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Wage slaves. Yeah.

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That's pretty strong. Yeah, it is.

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Really shows you that power dynamic

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that C3S is trying to kind of push back against.

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Exactly, and one of the main ways they're doing that

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is by really focusing on the digital landscape.

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And that means focusing on online and live licensing.

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That's where a lot of independent artists

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are finding their audience these days.

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Right, and it makes sense too.

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Think of how much music we consume online.

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Right.

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Through streaming services, through YouTube,

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even in video games.

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It's a huge market.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And it's only growing.

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So they're really tapping into something

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that maybe the traditional organizations

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have been slow to adapt to.

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Yeah, I think so.

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You know, their forward-thinking approach,

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it doesn't stop there.

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Because while they are focusing on online and live initially,

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they're also planning to expand into B2B licensing, which

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is music used in commercial settings like advertising

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or corporate videos, things like that.

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And then also what's called mechanical licensing.

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Hold on, now before we go any further, can we back up a sec?

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What is mechanical licensing?

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Because some of our listeners might not

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be familiar with that term.

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Yeah, so basically, it's the right

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to reproduce and distribute a musical work.

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So any time a song is streamed, downloaded, or pressed

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onto a physical CD, you need a mechanical license.

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It's a pretty big part of how the music industry makes money.

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So they're trying to handle all these different types

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of licensing.

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And as a nonprofit, that seems really ambitious.

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Like, how are they going to do all that?

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I mean, just the thought of trying

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to track music usage across all these different platforms,

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that sounds like a logistical nightmare.

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Well, that's where technology really comes in.

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They believe in using technology, and especially

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open source software, to kind of automate a lot of that work.

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They're developing systems to track, to monitor,

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report music usage across all these different platforms,

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and then streamline the whole licensing and billing process

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as well.

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So they're cutting out the middleman, cutting out the cost.

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So it benefits the artists.

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It benefits the people who are using their music.

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That's pretty smart.

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Yeah, and it's not just about the nuts and bolts

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of rights management.

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They're also committed to supporting

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cultural projects and educational programs related

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to copyright.

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So they're going beyond just the business side of things,

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really trying to foster a better environment for creativity.

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Exactly.

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OK, now you mentioned that a lot of this philosophy

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is laid out in something called the Cultural Commons

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Manifesto, right?

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Yes.

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OK, so let's dive into that.

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What are some of the key ideas or statements

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from this manifesto that really stand out to you?

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Well, one of the big ones is that art in general

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belongs to all humans alike, and all humans

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have the same right to their own contribution

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to the cultural commons.

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That's a pretty bold statement, and it really

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speaks to their commitment to democratizing creativity.

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That's a nice thought, and it almost

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reminds you of the open source movement in software

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development, where it's all about collaboration

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and shared ownership.

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Exactly, and another line that caught my attention

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is that trading works of art should

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be a means to support creating art, preserving art,

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and making art available to as many people as possible.

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They're basically saying that making money from art

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shouldn't overshadow the art itself.

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It's all about finding the right balance.

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So the market should serve art, not the other way around.

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But how realistic is that in today's world,

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where everything seems to be about profit?

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It's a complex issue, and people are

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going to have different perspectives on that.

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But they're encouraging an open and honest dialogue.

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They say that, and this is another quote,

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criticism is most welcome and important,

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but it should not be based on mere ideology,

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be it new ideas or old practices.

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I like that.

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Let's have a real conversation, but keep it constructive.

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Exactly.

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That kind of open-mindedness is so refreshing,

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especially in an industry that can be so slow to change.

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Yeah, and I think that's one of the most interesting things

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about C3S, because they're not just offering

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a new way of doing things.

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They're challenging us to rethink the very foundation

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of how we create, how we share, and how we value

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music in the 21st century.

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So trying to bridge the gap between those idealistic visions

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of a thriving artistic community and the reality of how do we

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operate in a market-driven system.

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Exactly.

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But we've talked a lot about their philosophy.

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We've talked about the potential benefits.

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What about the challenges?

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What are some of the potential downsides?

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Well, I think every new idea has its own set

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of complications.

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And I think one of the concerns might be,

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can a nonprofit model really be sustainable in the long run?

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Especially as they grow.

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They're going to need to find a way to generate enough revenue

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to cover their costs, but without making it

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too expensive for the artist to participate.

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And what about enforcement?

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Can an organization like C3S actually

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monitor copyright infringements on such a big scale?

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The internet is huge.

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Yeah, that's another big one.

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It's going to take a lot of technology and partnerships

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to really track usage and protect their members.

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They might have to come up with some pretty sophisticated

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algorithms and data analysis tools

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to spot unauthorized use.

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And they'll definitely have to work with legal experts

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and enforcement agencies to take action.

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So they're going up against some really big players

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in the music industry, the ones who

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have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.

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They might not be too happy about C3S.

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Yeah, that's true.

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But sometimes it takes somebody small to shake things up, right?

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It does.

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And remember, it's not just about the technology for them.

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They're building a community of artists

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who are passionate about this mission.

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And that's important.

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If enough artists get on board, buy into this vision,

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actively participate in C3S, that could really

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be a force for change.

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Absolutely.

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There's power in numbers, especially when

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you're going up against the establishment.

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And going back to the manifesto, I

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think it's interesting that they're not

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afraid of constructive criticism.

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Right.

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Remember that line about criticism

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not being based on just ideology?

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They seem open to feedback.

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Yes.

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They're willing to adjust as they learn, which is encouraging.

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Yeah, and it makes you think about how C3S

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fits into this bigger picture.

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We're seeing this rise of what they call the creator economy,

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with more and more people finding ways

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to make a living from their creativity

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without having to go through the old gatekeeper.

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And we see it everywhere.

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Yes.

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Patreon, Substack, Etsy.

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It's really exciting to see.

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Absolutely.

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And I think C3S is tapping into that same energy.

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They're giving artists a way to take control.

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Right, to participate in this new digital marketplace

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in a way that's fair and transparent.

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It's like they're saying, the old model is broken.

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Let's build something new.

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Let's build something better.

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But what do you think the impact of C3S

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might be on the music industry as a whole?

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Could they actually inspire other organizations

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to rethink how they approach things like copyright

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and how artists get paid?

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It's possible.

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These big disruptive innovations,

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they often force the old guard to adapt.

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Think about what happened to taxis

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when Uber and Lyft came along.

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It's a great analogy.

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They completely changed the game.

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Yeah, they did.

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And I think C3S has the potential

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to be that kind of game changer for the music world.

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So they could be a real catalyst for change.

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I think so.

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But it's still early days, right?

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It is.

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And a lot depends on how well they attract members,

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how they navigate the legal complexities,

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and how they adapt as the digital landscape keeps

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changing.

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It's a lot to juggle.

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But from what we've seen, they have a clear vision.

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They're committed to their mission.

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And they seem to be taking a very practical approach.

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And they're really leaning into that technology piece?

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Absolutely.

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OK, so let's talk more about that technology,

271
00:09:57,560 --> 00:09:59,600
because I think that's key to understanding

272
00:09:59,600 --> 00:10:02,040
how they could be so different from the traditional way

273
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,560
of doing things.

274
00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:06,320
What are some specific ways they're using technology

275
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:08,560
to make rights management more efficient?

276
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:11,960
Well, one of the big things is tracking music usage.

277
00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:13,680
Think about all the different places

278
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:15,520
where music is played these days.

279
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:19,720
Streaming services, radio, TV, even background music

280
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:20,520
in stores.

281
00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:21,320
Of course, yeah.

282
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:23,480
And the traditional organizations,

283
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,120
they often rely on manual reporting and sampling,

284
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,360
which can be not very accurate.

285
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:31,040
And that means artists might not be

286
00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:32,280
getting paid what they deserve.

287
00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:32,920
Exactly.

288
00:10:32,920 --> 00:10:35,200
So C3S is looking at things like audio

289
00:10:35,200 --> 00:10:38,400
fingerprinting and metadata analysis

290
00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:43,160
to automatically track where and how often a song is played.

291
00:10:43,160 --> 00:10:47,480
That kind of tech can give you much more accurate data

292
00:10:47,480 --> 00:10:49,680
and make sure artists are compensated fairly.

293
00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:50,880
So much more efficient.

294
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,300
But what about the licensing process itself?

295
00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:55,080
Isn't that still a big headache?

296
00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:56,200
It can be.

297
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,880
But C3S is trying to streamline that, too,

298
00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:01,680
by using smart contracts and blockchain technology.

299
00:11:01,680 --> 00:11:03,000
Hold on, blockchain.

300
00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:03,520
Yeah.

301
00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:04,340
Like Bitcoin.

302
00:11:04,340 --> 00:11:05,440
That's right.

303
00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:09,000
It's still pretty new, but it has the potential

304
00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:10,760
to completely change how we think

305
00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:13,040
about contracts and ownership.

306
00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:18,400
With C3S, it could let artists set their own, maybe even

307
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:20,080
cut out the middleman altogether.

308
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:21,040
Wow.

309
00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:24,960
So you're saying that an artist could upload their music,

310
00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,640
set their licensing terms using this smart contract,

311
00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:30,760
and then just get paid automatically every time

312
00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:31,720
their music is used.

313
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:32,600
That's the idea.

314
00:11:32,600 --> 00:11:33,960
It's almost like science fiction.

315
00:11:33,960 --> 00:11:34,960
I know, right?

316
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:36,320
But it's happening now.

317
00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,800
I'm really certain to see how C3S could give artists

318
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,960
so much more power.

319
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,640
What's the most impactful thing about C3S for you?

320
00:11:43,640 --> 00:11:46,160
It's the combination of their social mission

321
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,940
and their practical approach.

322
00:11:47,940 --> 00:11:49,480
They're not just talking about ideals.

323
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,920
They're actually building the systems to make it happen.

324
00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:54,200
And they're not just jumping on the latest tech trends.

325
00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,240
They're being thoughtful about how they use technology

326
00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,240
and making sure it aligns with their values.

327
00:11:59,240 --> 00:11:59,920
Exactly.

328
00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:01,300
And this could have ripple effects

329
00:12:01,300 --> 00:12:02,760
throughout the whole music industry.

330
00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:03,640
Right.

331
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,100
If C3S can show that a more efficient and transparent system

332
00:12:07,100 --> 00:12:10,880
is possible, it could force the traditional organizations

333
00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:11,960
to up their game.

334
00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,160
I think so.

335
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,400
It's like they're setting a new standard.

336
00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:17,320
Do you think other creative industries could

337
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,160
learn from their model?

338
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:20,160
I think so.

339
00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:22,160
A lot of the challenges musicians face,

340
00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,200
like fair compensation, control over their work, access

341
00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,040
to markets, other creators face those same challenges.

342
00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:31,400
It makes you wonder if we could see similar cooperatives

343
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,940
for writers, filmmakers, visual artists, maybe even software

344
00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:35,440
developers.

345
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:37,320
Yeah, it's definitely possible.

346
00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,360
And if they can use technology the same way C3S is doing,

347
00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,320
it could really shift the balance of power

348
00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:43,320
in those industries.

349
00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:44,040
It's pretty exciting.

350
00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:44,680
It is.

351
00:12:44,680 --> 00:12:46,320
We've covered a lot of ground today

352
00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,040
from how C3S is approaching music rights

353
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:53,480
to their vision for a more equitable creative ecosystem.

354
00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:56,160
What's your final takeaway for our listeners today?

355
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,200
I'd say keep an eye on C3S.

356
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,280
They're just getting started, but they

357
00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:02,840
represent a potential paradigm shift

358
00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,920
in how we think about creating, sharing, and owning music.

359
00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:08,880
What they do could have a big impact

360
00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:12,640
on the future of the music industry and maybe even beyond.

361
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,440
It's a story worth following.

362
00:13:14,440 --> 00:13:15,840
And it's not just about music.

363
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:19,720
It's about the bigger fight for artists and creators

364
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,300
to have more control and be fairly compensated

365
00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:22,880
for their work.

366
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:23,400
Absolutely.

367
00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,720
It's about making a better future for creativity.

368
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:27,320
Beautifully put.

369
00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,120
And as you come across new creative works, a song, a film,

370
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:35,400
a piece of writing, ask yourself, who benefits from this?

371
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,200
And how can we make sure those benefits are shared fairly

372
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:39,200
and sustainably?

373
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,380
That's a great thought to leave our listeners with.

374
00:13:41,380 --> 00:13:44,200
Thanks for joining us on this deep dive into C3S.

375
00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:46,960
We'll be back soon with another fascinating exploration

376
00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:48,920
of a topic that's shaping the future.

377
00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:51,900
Until then, keep learning, keep questioning,

378
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:52,720
and keep creating.

379
00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:55,880
And it really speaks to their commitment to democratizing

380
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:56,840
creativity.

381
00:13:56,840 --> 00:13:57,720
That's a nice thought.

382
00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:00,600
And it almost reminds me of the open source movement

383
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,160
in software development, where it's all about collaboration

384
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:04,400
and shared ownership.

385
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,240
Exactly.

386
00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:07,400
And another line that caught my attention is that,

387
00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,520
trading works of art should be a means

388
00:14:09,520 --> 00:14:12,280
to support creating art, preserving art,

389
00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:15,800
and making art available to as many people as possible.

390
00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,080
They're basically saying that making money from art

391
00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:21,680
shouldn't overshadow the art itself.

392
00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:23,880
It's all about finding the right balance.

393
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,240
So the market should serve art, not the other way around.

394
00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,840
But how realistic is that in today's world, where everything

395
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,720
seems to be about profit?

396
00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:34,560
It's a complex issue, and people are

397
00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,480
going to have different perspectives on that.

398
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,520
But they're encouraging an open and honest dialogue.

399
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:41,560
They say that, and this is another quote,

400
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:43,960
criticism is most welcome and important,

401
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,600
but it should not be based on mere ideology,

402
00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,680
be it new ideas or old practices.

403
00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:49,600
I like that.

404
00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,040
Let's have a real conversation, but keep it constructive.

405
00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:52,960
Exactly.

406
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,060
That kind of open-mindedness is so refreshing,

407
00:14:55,060 --> 00:14:58,000
especially in an industry that can be so slow to change.

408
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:00,460
Yeah, and I think that's one of the most interesting things

409
00:15:00,460 --> 00:15:03,420
about C3S, because they're not just offering

410
00:15:03,420 --> 00:15:04,540
a new way of doing things.

411
00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:08,000
They're challenging us to rethink the very foundation

412
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,040
of how we create, how we share, and how we value

413
00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:14,200
music in the 21st century.

414
00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:17,280
So trying to bridge the gap between those idealistic

415
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,860
visions of a thriving artistic community,

416
00:15:21,860 --> 00:15:24,580
and the reality of how do we operate

417
00:15:24,580 --> 00:15:25,940
in a market-driven system.

418
00:15:25,940 --> 00:15:26,700
Exactly.

419
00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:29,020
But we've talked a lot about their philosophy.

420
00:15:29,020 --> 00:15:30,620
We've talked about the potential benefits.

421
00:15:30,620 --> 00:15:31,700
What about the challenges?

422
00:15:31,700 --> 00:15:33,420
What are some of the potential downsides?

423
00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:34,900
Well, I think every new idea

424
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:37,420
has its own set of complications.

425
00:15:37,420 --> 00:15:39,180
And I think one of the concerns might be,

426
00:15:39,180 --> 00:15:41,860
can a non-profit model really be sustainable

427
00:15:41,860 --> 00:15:44,300
in the long run, especially as they grow?

428
00:15:44,300 --> 00:15:46,300
They're gonna need to find a way to generate

429
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:48,220
enough revenue to cover their costs

430
00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:50,500
but without making it too expensive

431
00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:52,500
for the artist to participate.

432
00:15:52,500 --> 00:15:53,740
And what about enforcement?

433
00:15:53,740 --> 00:15:56,260
I mean, can an organization like C3S

434
00:15:56,260 --> 00:15:58,580
actually monitor copyright infringements

435
00:15:58,580 --> 00:15:59,540
on such a big scale?

436
00:15:59,540 --> 00:16:01,140
I mean, the internet is huge.

437
00:16:01,140 --> 00:16:03,700
Yeah, that's another big one.

438
00:16:03,700 --> 00:16:06,080
It's gonna take a lot of technology and partnerships

439
00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:10,700
to really track usage and protect their members.

440
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:11,740
They might have to come up with

441
00:16:11,740 --> 00:16:14,140
some pretty sophisticated algorithms

442
00:16:14,140 --> 00:16:19,140
and data analysis tools to spot unauthorized use.

443
00:16:19,140 --> 00:16:22,200
And they'll definitely have to work with legal experts

444
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,660
and enforcement agencies to take action.

445
00:16:24,660 --> 00:16:27,300
So they're going up against some really big players

446
00:16:27,300 --> 00:16:29,140
in the music industry.

447
00:16:29,140 --> 00:16:31,080
I mean, the ones who have a vested interest

448
00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:33,380
in keeping things the way they are,

449
00:16:33,380 --> 00:16:35,340
they might not be too happy about C3S.

450
00:16:35,340 --> 00:16:36,680
Yeah, that's true.

451
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,260
But sometimes it takes somebody small

452
00:16:38,260 --> 00:16:39,500
to shake things up, right?

453
00:16:39,500 --> 00:16:40,340
And it does.

454
00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:43,540
And remember, it's not just about the technology for them.

455
00:16:43,540 --> 00:16:45,940
They're building a community of artists

456
00:16:45,940 --> 00:16:47,540
who are passionate about this mission.

457
00:16:47,540 --> 00:16:48,660
And that's important.

458
00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:52,100
If enough artists get on board, buy into this vision,

459
00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:54,460
actively participate in C3S,

460
00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:56,260
that could really be a force for change.

461
00:16:56,260 --> 00:16:57,100
Absolutely.

462
00:16:57,100 --> 00:16:58,060
There's power in numbers,

463
00:16:58,060 --> 00:17:00,100
especially when you're going up against the establishment.

464
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:01,540
I'm going back to the manifesto.

465
00:17:01,540 --> 00:17:03,340
I think it's interesting that they're not afraid

466
00:17:03,340 --> 00:17:05,080
of constructive criticism.

467
00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:06,620
Remember that line about criticism

468
00:17:06,620 --> 00:17:08,900
not being based on just ideology?

469
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:09,740
Yeah.

470
00:17:09,740 --> 00:17:11,020
They seem open to feedback.

471
00:17:11,020 --> 00:17:11,860
Yes.

472
00:17:11,860 --> 00:17:12,900
They're willing to adjust.

473
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:13,740
They are.

474
00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:14,560
As they learn.

475
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:15,400
Yeah.

476
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,240
Which is encouraging.

477
00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:18,420
Yeah, and it makes you think about how C3S

478
00:17:18,420 --> 00:17:19,780
fits into this bigger picture.

479
00:17:19,780 --> 00:17:21,580
We're seeing this rise of what they call

480
00:17:21,580 --> 00:17:24,540
the creator economy with more and more people

481
00:17:24,540 --> 00:17:27,740
finding ways to make a living from their creativity

482
00:17:27,740 --> 00:17:30,180
without having to go through the old gatekeepers.

483
00:17:30,180 --> 00:17:31,340
And we see it everywhere.

484
00:17:31,340 --> 00:17:32,180
Yes.

485
00:17:32,180 --> 00:17:34,020
Patreon, Substack, Etsy.

486
00:17:34,020 --> 00:17:35,220
It's really exciting to see.

487
00:17:35,220 --> 00:17:37,220
Absolutely, and I think C3S is tapping

488
00:17:37,220 --> 00:17:38,460
into that same energy.

489
00:17:38,460 --> 00:17:41,380
They're giving artists a way to take control,

490
00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:44,300
to participate in this new digital marketplace

491
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:46,300
in a way that's fair and transparent.

492
00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:47,900
It's like they're saying the old model is broken.

493
00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:48,740
Yeah.

494
00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:49,560
Let's build something new.

495
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:50,400
Let's build something better.

496
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:51,240
Yes.

497
00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,380
But what do you think the impact of C3S

498
00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:55,980
might be on the music industry as a whole?

499
00:17:55,980 --> 00:17:58,700
Could they actually inspire other organizations

500
00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,460
to rethink how they approach things like copyright

501
00:18:01,460 --> 00:18:02,820
and how artists get paid?

502
00:18:02,820 --> 00:18:03,780
It's possible.

503
00:18:03,780 --> 00:18:05,700
These big disruptive innovations,

504
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:07,980
they often force the old guard to adapt.

505
00:18:07,980 --> 00:18:08,820
Right.

506
00:18:08,820 --> 00:18:10,140
Think about what happened to taxis

507
00:18:10,140 --> 00:18:12,100
when Uber and Lyft came along.

508
00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:12,980
It's a great analogy.

509
00:18:12,980 --> 00:18:14,740
They completely changed the game.

510
00:18:14,740 --> 00:18:15,740
Yeah, they did.

511
00:18:15,740 --> 00:18:17,580
And I think C3S has the potential

512
00:18:17,580 --> 00:18:21,280
to be that kind of game changer for the music world.

513
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:23,800
So they could be a real catalyst for change.

514
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:24,640
I think so.

515
00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:25,820
But it's still early days.

516
00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:26,860
I think so.

517
00:18:26,860 --> 00:18:29,340
A lot depends on how well they attract members.

518
00:18:29,340 --> 00:18:30,180
Yes.

519
00:18:30,180 --> 00:18:31,960
How they navigate the legal complexities.

520
00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:32,800
Right.

521
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,360
And how they adapt as the digital landscape keeps changing.

522
00:18:36,360 --> 00:18:38,540
It's a lot to juggle.

523
00:18:38,540 --> 00:18:41,220
But from what we've seen, they have a clear vision.

524
00:18:41,220 --> 00:18:42,980
They're committed to their mission.

525
00:18:42,980 --> 00:18:45,320
And they seem to be taking a very practical approach.

526
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:47,660
And they're really leaning into that technology piece.

527
00:18:47,660 --> 00:18:48,460
Absolutely.

528
00:18:48,460 --> 00:18:50,420
OK, so let's talk more about that technology.

529
00:18:50,420 --> 00:18:52,580
Because I think that's key to understanding

530
00:18:52,580 --> 00:18:55,500
how they could be so different from the traditional way

531
00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:56,500
of doing things.

532
00:18:56,500 --> 00:18:58,740
What are some specific ways they're using technology

533
00:18:58,740 --> 00:19:02,140
to make rights management more efficient?

534
00:19:02,140 --> 00:19:05,060
Well, one of the big things is tracking music usage.

535
00:19:05,060 --> 00:19:06,620
Think about all the different places

536
00:19:06,620 --> 00:19:08,940
where music is played these days.

537
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:11,940
Streaming services, radio, TV, even background music

538
00:19:11,940 --> 00:19:12,660
in stores.

539
00:19:12,660 --> 00:19:13,460
Oh, of course.

540
00:19:13,460 --> 00:19:15,140
And the traditional organizations,

541
00:19:15,140 --> 00:19:18,180
they often rely on manual reporting and sampling,

542
00:19:18,180 --> 00:19:21,300
which can be not very accurate.

543
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:22,940
And that means artists might not be

544
00:19:22,940 --> 00:19:24,420
getting paid what they deserve.

545
00:19:24,420 --> 00:19:25,060
Exactly.

546
00:19:25,060 --> 00:19:29,100
So C3S is looking at things like audio fingerprinting

547
00:19:29,100 --> 00:19:32,340
and metadata analysis to automatically track

548
00:19:32,340 --> 00:19:34,980
where and how often a song is played.

549
00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:38,100
That kind of tech can give you much more accurate data

550
00:19:38,100 --> 00:19:40,260
and make sure artists are compensated fairly.

551
00:19:40,260 --> 00:19:41,500
So much more efficient.

552
00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:42,020
Yeah.

553
00:19:42,020 --> 00:19:44,740
But what about the licensing process itself?

554
00:19:44,740 --> 00:19:46,500
Isn't that still a big headache?

555
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:47,860
It can be.

556
00:19:47,860 --> 00:19:50,660
But C3S is trying to streamline that, too,

557
00:19:50,660 --> 00:19:53,340
by using smart contracts and blockchain technology.

558
00:19:53,340 --> 00:19:53,840
Hold on.

559
00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:55,060
Blockchain, like Bitcoin.

560
00:19:55,060 --> 00:19:55,740
That's right.

561
00:19:55,740 --> 00:19:57,700
It's still pretty new, but it has the potential

562
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,140
to completely change how we think about contracts

563
00:20:00,140 --> 00:20:01,140
and ownership.

564
00:20:01,140 --> 00:20:04,080
With C3S, it could let artists set their own licensing terms

565
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,420
and conditions, maybe even cut out the middleman altogether.

566
00:20:07,420 --> 00:20:08,100
Wow.

567
00:20:08,100 --> 00:20:11,180
So you're saying that an artist could upload their music,

568
00:20:11,180 --> 00:20:14,720
set their licensing terms using this smart contract,

569
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:16,620
and then just get paid automatically

570
00:20:16,620 --> 00:20:17,860
every time their music is used.

571
00:20:17,860 --> 00:20:18,820
That's the idea.

572
00:20:18,820 --> 00:20:20,160
It's almost like science fiction.

573
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:21,220
I know, right?

574
00:20:21,220 --> 00:20:22,700
But it's happening.

575
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:26,620
Now I'm really starting to see how C3S could give artists

576
00:20:26,620 --> 00:20:28,660
so much more power.

577
00:20:28,660 --> 00:20:31,740
What's the most impactful thing about C3S for you?

578
00:20:31,740 --> 00:20:35,340
For me, it's that combination of their social mission

579
00:20:35,340 --> 00:20:37,540
and their practical approach.

580
00:20:37,540 --> 00:20:39,620
They're not just talking about ideals.

581
00:20:39,620 --> 00:20:42,680
They're actually building the systems to make it happen.

582
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,740
And they're not just jumping on the latest tech trends.

583
00:20:45,740 --> 00:20:46,240
No.

584
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,620
They're being thoughtful about how they use technology

585
00:20:48,620 --> 00:20:50,180
and making sure it aligns with their value.

586
00:20:50,180 --> 00:20:50,740
Exactly.

587
00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:51,940
And this could have ripple effects

588
00:20:51,940 --> 00:20:53,320
throughout the whole music industry.

589
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:53,820
Right.

590
00:20:53,820 --> 00:20:57,180
If C3S can show that a more efficient and transparent system

591
00:20:57,180 --> 00:21:00,780
is possible, it could force the traditional organizations

592
00:21:00,780 --> 00:21:02,060
to up their game.

593
00:21:02,060 --> 00:21:03,020
I think so.

594
00:21:03,020 --> 00:21:05,140
It's like they're setting a new standard.

595
00:21:05,140 --> 00:21:06,980
Do you think other creative industries could

596
00:21:06,980 --> 00:21:08,380
learn from their model?

597
00:21:08,380 --> 00:21:09,260
I think so.

598
00:21:09,260 --> 00:21:11,420
A lot of the challenges musicians face,

599
00:21:11,420 --> 00:21:13,940
like fair compensation control over their work,

600
00:21:13,940 --> 00:21:15,860
access to markets, other creators

601
00:21:15,860 --> 00:21:17,180
face those same challenges.

602
00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:19,780
It makes you wonder if we could see similar cooperatives

603
00:21:19,780 --> 00:21:24,480
for writers, filmmakers, visual artists, maybe even

604
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:25,380
software developers.

605
00:21:25,380 --> 00:21:25,880
Yeah.

606
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:27,260
It's definitely possible.

607
00:21:27,260 --> 00:21:30,820
And if they can use technology the same way C3S is doing,

608
00:21:30,820 --> 00:21:32,700
it could really shift the balance of power

609
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:33,900
in those industries.

610
00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:34,740
It's pretty exciting.

611
00:21:34,740 --> 00:21:35,180
It is.

612
00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:36,680
We've covered a lot of ground today

613
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,020
from how C3S is approaching music rights

614
00:21:39,020 --> 00:21:43,180
to their vision for a more equitable, creative ecosystem.

615
00:21:43,180 --> 00:21:45,340
What's your final takeaway for our listeners today?

616
00:21:45,340 --> 00:21:47,180
I'd say keep an eye on C3S.

617
00:21:47,180 --> 00:21:48,740
They're just getting started, but they

618
00:21:48,740 --> 00:21:50,660
represent a potential paradigm shift

619
00:21:50,660 --> 00:21:54,580
in how we think about creating, sharing, and owning music.

620
00:21:54,580 --> 00:21:56,540
What they do could have a big impact

621
00:21:56,540 --> 00:21:58,100
on the future of the music industry

622
00:21:58,100 --> 00:21:59,380
and maybe even beyond.

623
00:21:59,380 --> 00:22:00,980
It's a story worth following.

624
00:22:00,980 --> 00:22:03,380
And as we've talked about, it's not just about music.

625
00:22:03,380 --> 00:22:06,220
It's about the fight for artists and creators

626
00:22:06,220 --> 00:22:08,720
to have more control and to be compensated fairly

627
00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:09,380
for their work.

628
00:22:09,380 --> 00:22:10,380
Absolutely.

629
00:22:10,380 --> 00:22:12,300
It's about building a more sustainable future

630
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:13,900
for all creative industries.

631
00:22:13,900 --> 00:22:15,340
Very well said.

632
00:22:15,340 --> 00:22:17,460
And as you come across new creative works,

633
00:22:17,460 --> 00:22:19,940
maybe it's a song or a film, a piece of writing,

634
00:22:19,940 --> 00:22:22,480
whatever it might be, ask yourself,

635
00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,380
who benefits from this?

636
00:22:24,380 --> 00:22:26,260
And how can we make sure that those benefits

637
00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:29,360
are shared in a way that's fair and sustainable?

638
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:31,700
That's a great thought to leave our listeners with.

639
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:33,300
Thanks for joining me on this deep dive

640
00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:35,220
into the world of C3S.

641
00:22:35,220 --> 00:22:37,380
We'll be back soon with another fascinating look

642
00:22:37,380 --> 00:22:39,140
at a topic that's shaping the future.

643
00:22:39,140 --> 00:22:41,560
Until then, keep learning, keep questioning,