ever feel like, you know, you're just skimming the surface of these big global issues.
Like you get the headlines, but not really the like deeper forces at play.
Totally. It's easy to feel that way, especially with something as, um,
multifaceted as international relations.
Right. But that's exactly why we're doing this deep dive today.
We're going behind the scenes,
like way behind the scenes to explore an organization that's been a major
influence on German and European foreign policy for like forever.
The German council on foreign relations, the DGAP. Yes, the DGAP.
And thankfully we've got a ton of their materials right here to help us there
about us, journal info, even by those of their experts.
Like we've got the VIP backstage passes to, you know,
really understanding how this whole DGAP thing works. It's true.
And the first thing that really struck me honestly,
was their history founded in 1955 right in the middle of the cold war.
Talk about a time to, um, to start a think tank. No kidding.
But I guess it speaks to their like longevity.
This isn't some flash in the pan operation.
They've been grappling with these complex global issues for what?
Almost 70 years. Yeah. Almost 70 years. And they haven't just been, you know,
sitting on the sidelines observing they're about research and the action.
That's a direct quote from their mission statement.
Like they're actively trying to champion democracy and the rule of law through
their work. So they're not afraid to, you know, get their hands a little dirty.
Not at all. They're in the mix.
But what does that actually look like in practice? Well, for starters,
they've got this roster of over 75 experts,
and I'm talking like former diplomats,
leading academics, cybersecurity specialists. You name it.
They've got someone who's like top of their field. It's incredible.
And that's reflected in the sheer range of issues they cover. Climate change,
digitization. You've got international order, defense.
We can understand that these issues can't be separated out into neat little
boxes. It's all interconnected, joined up thinking they call it. Okay.
So we're talking about a high level organization tackling some of the world's
most complex issues. But here's where it gets really interesting.
DGAP hosts over 150 member only events every year in Berlin.
Yeah. We're not talking about your typical conferences here.
These are exclusive closed door discussions, high ranking officials,
diplomats, members of parliament, that kind of crowd.
So like a pretty exclusive club then.
You could say that, but that exclusivity also speaks to the influence they've
built, right?
They've created this space where people who actually shape foreign policy can
have these frank strategic conversations,
conversations that wouldn't happen out in the open. Let's be honest.
It allows for a more free flowing exchange of ideas and perspectives,
which is crucial when you're talking about tackling these global challenges.
It's like a think tank, a debating society,
and a high level networking event all rolled into one.
Exactly. Speaking of which, they also have their own journal,
international politic quarterly. Yes.
And we were actually given a sample issue on European defense,
which I thought was pretty timely. It really is. I mean,
with everything going on in Ukraine, defense is a hot topic. Absolutely.
And this issue in particular features analysis from, you know,
a really diverse group of contributors, defense officials, academics, analysts.
It really highlights DGAP's role as a, uh,
as a convener for these different viewpoints on important issues.
And they're not shying away from the nitty gritty details either. I mean,
we're talking articles titled the European defense commissioner is here and lost
in space Europe's role in spatial defense.
They're not afraid to get specific, you know, which is important.
These topics need to be made more engaging and accessible. Totally. Okay.
So we've got a good sense of their structure, how they operate,
but what about the substance of their work?
Let's crack open this rethinking European defense issue and see what kind of
insights they're putting out there. This international politic quarterly,
it's titled get this rethinking European defense. And like right off the bat,
there's this article that caught my eye about France and Germany,
and they're not so unified front when it comes to defense. Well, yeah, I mean,
those are like the heavyweights of the EU, you know,
but they don't exactly have a history of being on the same page about
defense strategy for sure.
And this article goes deep into those historical tensions and anxieties.
Like, did you know France is actually kind of wary of Germany having a strong
military?
Which given the history there, I mean, it's not exactly surprising, is it?
Right? Totally understandable. And then there's Germany, who to be fair,
has been pretty content under the U S security umbrella for decades now.
It's like cozy under there. Why rock the boat?
Yeah. So it's way more than just budgets and equipment.
It's like deep seated perceptions and anxieties they got to overcome.
It makes you wonder if these two can't figure it out,
what hope is there for a United Europe on defense?
And that is the million dollar question, isn't it? The article basically says,
look, if you don't address this stuff head on,
any European defense policy is going to be, well, kind of doomed from the start.
Talk about a reality check, but okay, it's not all doom and gloom.
There's this other piece about the new European defense commissioner. Oh yeah.
This is huge.
The fact that Ursula von der Leyen actually created this position,
it shows that Europe is finally starting to take its security seriously,
especially now.
And this new commissioner sounds like they've got a lot on their plate,
especially this whole thing about a stronger European defense industry,
which is another can of worms. Let's be real right now.
It's totally fragmented, inefficient.
Like you've got all these different companies in all these different countries
and they're all making basically the same stuff. Wait.
So instead of having like one European tank, you've got a French tank,
a German tank, a Spanish tank. Bingo.
And it's not just about redundancy.
It actually makes joint operations a nightmare.
There was that NATO exercise a while back where, and this is kind of embarrassing,
but different countries, equipment just, it wasn't playing nice together.
Wait. So interoperability, just so everyone's on the same page.
It basically means like, can your stuff work with my stuff? Exactly.
And in this case, not so much.
The article makes the case that this new commissioner,
they've got to push for more cooperation, standardization,
like get on the same page with equipment, joint procurement,
that sort of thing.
Although part of me wonders if some countries kind of like having their own
separate defense industry, you know, like it's a matter of national pride,
maybe even a jobs thing. Oh, for sure. You've got economic interests,
political interests, defense contracts are a big deal. But here's the thing.
In today's world,
no single European country can go it alone on offense.
The threats are too big, too complex.
Which brings us right back to rethinking European defense.
It's like DGAP is sending out a wake up call to European leaders,
forcing them to actually deal with these, let's face it,
kind of uncomfortable truths. Right. Like time to step up your game guys.
And this journal issue, it's not about giving easy answers.
It's about framing the debate,
giving policy makers the info they need to actually make the right decisions,
which is really what it's all about. Right? So we've talked about their experts,
their events, this journal,
but how does DGAP actually get stuff done? Like,
how do they take all this research, all this analysis,
and actually turn it into action?
Well, remember those super exclusive events we were talking about over 150 a
year, and they're crawling with the top people in foreign policy and defense.
That's a big part of it.
Oh right. The diplomat meet and greets,
but like way harder to get into than your average conference.
Yeah. You could say that it's exclusive for a reason though.
It gives DGAPs experts direct access to the people who can actually make things
happen. So no more waiting for some report to be read or hoping your
recommendations make it through the bureaucracy. Exactly.
It's about fostering relationships,
having real conversations that wouldn't happen in a more formal setting.
It's like they've created this safe space for policymakers to bounce ideas off
each other, challenge assumptions, all without the whole world watching,
which I get it confidentiality is key, but man,
I'd love to be a fly on the wall at one of those things. Right.
But the confidential nature of these discussions is actually really important.
Let's see if we'll be more candid, more open to debating tough issues.
It's a balancing act though, for sure.
Transparency versus those frank conversations. But okay,
it's not just those closed door meetings in Berlin.
What about those study trips they do to places like Georgia and Moldova?
Remember those? Oh yeah. The perk of being a DGAP member. Right.
Imagine packing for that. Okay. Gotta bring my notes on European defense policy,
my hiking boots from Moldova. What do you even pack for that? Seriously.
But those trips are another way DGAP bridges that gap between theory and
like the real world. It's one thing to read a briefing book.
It's another to actually be there, talk to people on the ground. Exactly.
Seeing how policy decisions actually play out in these places.
It can be eyeopening for someone used to those conference rooms in Berlin.
It's like, okay, now it's getting real. So we've covered their research events,
networks. They've even got that amazing library. But one thing that really
jumps out at me is their absolute dedication to knowledge. Oh, totally.
They take that seriously and it's not just about hoarding it.
It's about making it useful,
getting it to the people who can use it to, you know, make a difference.
Like knowledge is the foundation for everything they do. They gather it,
analyze it, share it with the people who can actually put it into action.
Knowledge is power, right? But DGAP, they're like knowledge shared.
That's where the real power is. It's true.
And that's what makes their approach so effective. I think they're not looking
at these problems with blinders on. Not at all.
They're bringing in all these different experts, different backgrounds,
different countries.
Like let's get a full 360 view of what we're dealing with here.
Jo end up thinking you said it earlier and it just makes so much sense,
especially now and everything so interconnected. Right.
You can't talk about security without talking about climate change, migration,
the economy. It's all a web. Totally. Which actually makes me think,
if we were DGAP members for a day with the VIP badges and everything,
the whole shebang,
what event would we be most keen to attend given everything we've learned about
them? Oh, that's a good one. Right. There's so much to choose from.
I think honestly I'd gravitate towards anything at that intersection of climate
change, migration and security. Now that you mention it,
that's a topic I'd be front row for.
What is it about that intersection that you find so compelling?
Well, we always hear about climate induced migration as a humanitarian issue,
which it absolutely is. But I think the security angle is often overlooked.
It's true. It's often treated as a side issue.
How might climate change like really exacerbate existing tensions we're seeing,
whether it's over resources, borders, even national identities.
And what should that mean for how Germany,
how Europe in general approaches foreign policy? These are questions, right?
Exactly. And something tells me DGAP has folks thinking about this from every possible angle.
Oh, I have no doubt. You'd have scientists who are really studying those climate
impacts, diplomats who are dealing with the fallout on the ground.
Maybe even someone from a country that's really on the front lines of climate
change, you know, hearing those lived experiences.
It's all about those different voices, those different perspectives.
Because the solutions, or even just the strategies for managing these things,
they're not going to be simple. No one size fits all.
Not a chance. You need those nuanced perspectives to even begin to unpack those
challenges, the tradeoffs, the unintended consequences.
And that's something DGAP does so well, fostering those kinds of conversations,
even the uncomfortable ones.
The ones that lead to real change.
Well, on that note, I think we've done a pretty thorough deep dive on the DGAP.
Their history, their approach, the impact they've had.
It's been fascinating to unpack all this with you. You know,
the thing I find most compelling about DGAP is they're not claiming to have all
the answers.
They're not pretending to be the be all end all. Yeah.
They're constantly asking these questions, pushing for deeper understanding.
They're like that friend who shows up to a party having just read like five books
and a dozen articles and they just blow your mind with their questions.
That's DGAP. They keep the conversation going.
The intellectually curious friend we all need in this crazy,
mixed up world. For sure. So to everyone listening, if you're like us,
if you want to go deeper, understand the why behind the headlines.
DGAP is definitely worth checking out.
Maybe we'll even see you at one of those events sometime. You never know.
One can dream, but for now,
I think we've given everyone plenty to think about until next time.
Keep exploring, keep asking those tough questions.
And as always, thanks for joining us on the deep dive.