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ever feel like, you know, you're just skimming the surface of these big global issues.

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Like you get the headlines, but not really the like deeper forces at play.

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Totally. It's easy to feel that way, especially with something as, um,

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multifaceted as international relations.

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Right. But that's exactly why we're doing this deep dive today.

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We're going behind the scenes,

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like way behind the scenes to explore an organization that's been a major

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influence on German and European foreign policy for like forever.

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The German council on foreign relations, the DGAP. Yes, the DGAP.

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And thankfully we've got a ton of their materials right here to help us there

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about us, journal info, even by those of their experts.

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Like we've got the VIP backstage passes to, you know,

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really understanding how this whole DGAP thing works. It's true.

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And the first thing that really struck me honestly,

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was their history founded in 1955 right in the middle of the cold war.

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Talk about a time to, um, to start a think tank. No kidding.

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But I guess it speaks to their like longevity.

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This isn't some flash in the pan operation.

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They've been grappling with these complex global issues for what?

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Almost 70 years. Yeah. Almost 70 years. And they haven't just been, you know,

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sitting on the sidelines observing they're about research and the action.

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That's a direct quote from their mission statement.

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Like they're actively trying to champion democracy and the rule of law through

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their work. So they're not afraid to, you know, get their hands a little dirty.

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Not at all. They're in the mix.

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But what does that actually look like in practice? Well, for starters,

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they've got this roster of over 75 experts,

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and I'm talking like former diplomats,

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leading academics, cybersecurity specialists. You name it.

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They've got someone who's like top of their field. It's incredible.

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And that's reflected in the sheer range of issues they cover. Climate change,

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digitization. You've got international order, defense.

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We can understand that these issues can't be separated out into neat little

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boxes. It's all interconnected, joined up thinking they call it. Okay.

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So we're talking about a high level organization tackling some of the world's

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most complex issues. But here's where it gets really interesting.

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DGAP hosts over 150 member only events every year in Berlin.

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Yeah. We're not talking about your typical conferences here.

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These are exclusive closed door discussions, high ranking officials,

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diplomats, members of parliament, that kind of crowd.

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So like a pretty exclusive club then.

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You could say that, but that exclusivity also speaks to the influence they've

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built, right?

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They've created this space where people who actually shape foreign policy can

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have these frank strategic conversations,

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conversations that wouldn't happen out in the open. Let's be honest.

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It allows for a more free flowing exchange of ideas and perspectives,

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which is crucial when you're talking about tackling these global challenges.

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It's like a think tank, a debating society,

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and a high level networking event all rolled into one.

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Exactly. Speaking of which, they also have their own journal,

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international politic quarterly. Yes.

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And we were actually given a sample issue on European defense,

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which I thought was pretty timely. It really is. I mean,

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with everything going on in Ukraine, defense is a hot topic. Absolutely.

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And this issue in particular features analysis from, you know,

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a really diverse group of contributors, defense officials, academics, analysts.

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It really highlights DGAP's role as a, uh,

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as a convener for these different viewpoints on important issues.

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And they're not shying away from the nitty gritty details either. I mean,

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we're talking articles titled the European defense commissioner is here and lost

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in space Europe's role in spatial defense.

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They're not afraid to get specific, you know, which is important.

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These topics need to be made more engaging and accessible. Totally. Okay.

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So we've got a good sense of their structure, how they operate,

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but what about the substance of their work?

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Let's crack open this rethinking European defense issue and see what kind of

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insights they're putting out there. This international politic quarterly,

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it's titled get this rethinking European defense. And like right off the bat,

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there's this article that caught my eye about France and Germany,

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and they're not so unified front when it comes to defense. Well, yeah, I mean,

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those are like the heavyweights of the EU, you know,

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but they don't exactly have a history of being on the same page about

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defense strategy for sure.

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And this article goes deep into those historical tensions and anxieties.

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Like, did you know France is actually kind of wary of Germany having a strong

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military?

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Which given the history there, I mean, it's not exactly surprising, is it?

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Right? Totally understandable. And then there's Germany, who to be fair,

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has been pretty content under the U S security umbrella for decades now.

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It's like cozy under there. Why rock the boat?

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Yeah. So it's way more than just budgets and equipment.

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It's like deep seated perceptions and anxieties they got to overcome.

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It makes you wonder if these two can't figure it out,

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what hope is there for a United Europe on defense?

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And that is the million dollar question, isn't it? The article basically says,

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look, if you don't address this stuff head on,

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any European defense policy is going to be, well, kind of doomed from the start.

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Talk about a reality check, but okay, it's not all doom and gloom.

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There's this other piece about the new European defense commissioner. Oh yeah.

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This is huge.

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The fact that Ursula von der Leyen actually created this position,

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it shows that Europe is finally starting to take its security seriously,

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especially now.

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And this new commissioner sounds like they've got a lot on their plate,

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especially this whole thing about a stronger European defense industry,

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which is another can of worms. Let's be real right now.

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It's totally fragmented, inefficient.

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Like you've got all these different companies in all these different countries

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and they're all making basically the same stuff. Wait.

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So instead of having like one European tank, you've got a French tank,

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a German tank, a Spanish tank. Bingo.

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And it's not just about redundancy.

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It actually makes joint operations a nightmare.

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There was that NATO exercise a while back where, and this is kind of embarrassing,

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but different countries, equipment just, it wasn't playing nice together.

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Wait. So interoperability, just so everyone's on the same page.

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It basically means like, can your stuff work with my stuff? Exactly.

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And in this case, not so much.

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The article makes the case that this new commissioner,

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they've got to push for more cooperation, standardization,

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like get on the same page with equipment, joint procurement,

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that sort of thing.

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Although part of me wonders if some countries kind of like having their own

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separate defense industry, you know, like it's a matter of national pride,

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maybe even a jobs thing. Oh, for sure. You've got economic interests,

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political interests, defense contracts are a big deal. But here's the thing.

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In today's world,

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no single European country can go it alone on offense.

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The threats are too big, too complex.

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Which brings us right back to rethinking European defense.

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It's like DGAP is sending out a wake up call to European leaders,

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forcing them to actually deal with these, let's face it,

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kind of uncomfortable truths. Right. Like time to step up your game guys.

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And this journal issue, it's not about giving easy answers.

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It's about framing the debate,

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giving policy makers the info they need to actually make the right decisions,

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which is really what it's all about. Right? So we've talked about their experts,

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their events, this journal,

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but how does DGAP actually get stuff done? Like,

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how do they take all this research, all this analysis,

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and actually turn it into action?

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Well, remember those super exclusive events we were talking about over 150 a

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year, and they're crawling with the top people in foreign policy and defense.

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That's a big part of it.

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Oh right. The diplomat meet and greets,

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but like way harder to get into than your average conference.

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Yeah. You could say that it's exclusive for a reason though.

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It gives DGAPs experts direct access to the people who can actually make things

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happen. So no more waiting for some report to be read or hoping your

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recommendations make it through the bureaucracy. Exactly.

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It's about fostering relationships,

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having real conversations that wouldn't happen in a more formal setting.

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It's like they've created this safe space for policymakers to bounce ideas off

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each other, challenge assumptions, all without the whole world watching,

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which I get it confidentiality is key, but man,

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I'd love to be a fly on the wall at one of those things. Right.

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But the confidential nature of these discussions is actually really important.

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Let's see if we'll be more candid, more open to debating tough issues.

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It's a balancing act though, for sure.

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Transparency versus those frank conversations. But okay,

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it's not just those closed door meetings in Berlin.

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What about those study trips they do to places like Georgia and Moldova?

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Remember those? Oh yeah. The perk of being a DGAP member. Right.

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Imagine packing for that. Okay. Gotta bring my notes on European defense policy,

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my hiking boots from Moldova. What do you even pack for that? Seriously.

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But those trips are another way DGAP bridges that gap between theory and

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like the real world. It's one thing to read a briefing book.

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It's another to actually be there, talk to people on the ground. Exactly.

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Seeing how policy decisions actually play out in these places.

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It can be eyeopening for someone used to those conference rooms in Berlin.

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It's like, okay, now it's getting real. So we've covered their research events,

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networks. They've even got that amazing library. But one thing that really

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jumps out at me is their absolute dedication to knowledge. Oh, totally.

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They take that seriously and it's not just about hoarding it.

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It's about making it useful,

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getting it to the people who can use it to, you know, make a difference.

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Like knowledge is the foundation for everything they do. They gather it,

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analyze it, share it with the people who can actually put it into action.

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Knowledge is power, right? But DGAP, they're like knowledge shared.

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That's where the real power is. It's true.

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And that's what makes their approach so effective. I think they're not looking

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at these problems with blinders on. Not at all.

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They're bringing in all these different experts, different backgrounds,

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different countries.

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Like let's get a full 360 view of what we're dealing with here.

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Jo end up thinking you said it earlier and it just makes so much sense,

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especially now and everything so interconnected. Right.

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You can't talk about security without talking about climate change, migration,

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the economy. It's all a web. Totally. Which actually makes me think,

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if we were DGAP members for a day with the VIP badges and everything,

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the whole shebang,

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what event would we be most keen to attend given everything we've learned about

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them? Oh, that's a good one. Right. There's so much to choose from.

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I think honestly I'd gravitate towards anything at that intersection of climate

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change, migration and security. Now that you mention it,

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that's a topic I'd be front row for.

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What is it about that intersection that you find so compelling?

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Well, we always hear about climate induced migration as a humanitarian issue,

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which it absolutely is. But I think the security angle is often overlooked.

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It's true. It's often treated as a side issue.

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How might climate change like really exacerbate existing tensions we're seeing,

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whether it's over resources, borders, even national identities.

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And what should that mean for how Germany,

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how Europe in general approaches foreign policy? These are questions, right?

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Exactly. And something tells me DGAP has folks thinking about this from every possible angle.

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Oh, I have no doubt. You'd have scientists who are really studying those climate

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impacts, diplomats who are dealing with the fallout on the ground.

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Maybe even someone from a country that's really on the front lines of climate

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change, you know, hearing those lived experiences.

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It's all about those different voices, those different perspectives.

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Because the solutions, or even just the strategies for managing these things,

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they're not going to be simple. No one size fits all.

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Not a chance. You need those nuanced perspectives to even begin to unpack those

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challenges, the tradeoffs, the unintended consequences.

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And that's something DGAP does so well, fostering those kinds of conversations,

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even the uncomfortable ones.

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The ones that lead to real change.

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Well, on that note, I think we've done a pretty thorough deep dive on the DGAP.

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Their history, their approach, the impact they've had.

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It's been fascinating to unpack all this with you. You know,

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the thing I find most compelling about DGAP is they're not claiming to have all

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the answers.

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They're not pretending to be the be all end all. Yeah.

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They're constantly asking these questions, pushing for deeper understanding.

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They're like that friend who shows up to a party having just read like five books

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and a dozen articles and they just blow your mind with their questions.

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That's DGAP. They keep the conversation going.

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The intellectually curious friend we all need in this crazy,

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mixed up world. For sure. So to everyone listening, if you're like us,

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if you want to go deeper, understand the why behind the headlines.

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DGAP is definitely worth checking out.

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Maybe we'll even see you at one of those events sometime. You never know.

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One can dream, but for now,

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I think we've given everyone plenty to think about until next time.

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Keep exploring, keep asking those tough questions.

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And as always, thanks for joining us on the deep dive.