Today's Deep-Dive: Zulip
Ep. 214

Today's Deep-Dive: Zulip

Episode description

This episode explores Zulip, an open-source team chat app designed to enhance productivity and focus. Zulip’s unique feature is topic-based threading, which organizes communication into streams and topics, making discussions more manageable and context-rich. This approach helps teams, including Fortune 500 companies and open-source projects, stay organized and efficient. Zulip’s open-source nature ensures transparency, community-driven development, and no vendor lock-in. Users can self-host or use cloud hosting, with easy setup options and import tools for switching from other platforms.

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Download transcript (.srt)
0:00

Welcome to the Deep Dive.

0:01

This is where we cut through the noise,

0:03

unpack interesting topics,

0:05

and try to get you the core insights.

0:07

And we've all been there, right?

0:08

Drowning in chat messages, endless scrolling

0:10

to find that one decision.

0:11

Oh yeah.

0:12

Or just feeling completely swamped by notifications,

0:15

just a blur.

0:16

Today, we're diving into a tool that, well,

0:19

promises to change that, Zulip.

0:21

It's an open source team chat app.

0:23

And our mission here is to figure out what makes it tick,

0:26

what's unique about it, explore the benefits,

0:28

and really give you a clear entry point,

0:30

especially if you're maybe new to these kinds

0:32

of communication tools.

0:34

But before we unpack all that, just a quick word

0:36

from our supporter, Safe Server.

0:38

Safe Server helps with hosting software

0:40

and digital transformation,

0:41

basically making your digital life easier, more secure.

0:45

You can find out more over at www.safeserver.de.

0:49

Okay, so let's jump in.

0:50

Team communication tools, they're absolutely everywhere.

0:52

It feels like a new one every week.

0:53

It does, yeah.

0:54

All promising more collaboration, more productivity.

0:57

But Zulip keeps popping up, it's got some buzz.

1:01

So what is Zulip really at its heart?

1:03

What's its secret sauce?

1:04

How does it stand out?

1:06

Well, fundamentally, Zulip is an open source

1:09

team collaboration platform.

1:11

So think of it as a whole system.

1:12

It's got the server part, which you can control,

1:14

and then the web and desktop apps for your team to use.

1:18

And its main goal is really focused.

1:20

Helping teams stay productive, stay focused,

1:23

whether they're talking live or asynchronously.

1:26

And that secret sauce you mentioned,

1:28

that really comes down to how it organizes

1:29

all that communication.

1:30

OK, productive and focused.

1:32

That sounds like the dream for any team.

1:34

But honestly, lots of tools say that.

1:37

So what's the real differentiator here?

1:39

What's the core innovation Zulip has for TeamChat?

1:42

Right, the big thing, the defining innovation,

1:45

is what they call topic-based threading.

1:48

Like, taking the best bits of email,

1:50

the organized, focused discussion part,

1:53

and combining that with the speed

1:54

and the sort of casual feel of chat.

1:56

That's kind of Zulip.

1:58

It's built specifically for both live chat

2:00

and that deeper asynchronous stuff.

2:03

That's absolutely key to the productivity side.

2:05

Huh, topic-based threading, that's interesting.

2:08

So for someone who's only used Slack or Teams,

2:11

where it's just one message after another.

2:13

Right, linear chat.

2:14

Yeah, linear.

2:16

How does this topic thing actually work?

2:18

Can you give us an analogy, maybe, make it clear?

2:20

Does it slow down quick chats,

2:22

or does it really help you stay focused

2:24

without getting buried?

2:25

That's a really good question,

2:26

because it gets to the heart of it.

2:28

Think of a normal chat app,

2:29

like one really long, fast river.

2:33

Everything just flows by in that single stream.

2:36

Step away for a bit.

2:36

You've missed loads.

2:38

Exactly, you miss stuff, you struggle to find context,

2:40

you get pulled into chats that aren't even relevant to you.

2:42

It can be chaos.

2:43

Yeah, definitely felt that.

2:45

So Zulip, with its streams and topics,

2:48

it's more like a well-organized library.

2:51

Okay.

2:52

Each stream could be a big channel,

2:53

maybe marketing or engineering or a specific project.

2:56

And within each stream, you create separate topics

2:59

for specific discussions, like books on a shelf,

3:03

each on one subject.

3:04

Ah, okay, so within marketing,

3:06

you might have a topic for a Project X campaign.

3:09

Precisely.

3:10

All the messages about that specific campaign,

3:12

they live neatly in that one topic.

3:14

So you can easily jump into the budget review topic

3:17

for Project X without wading through, I don't know,

3:20

team lunch plans or bug reports from engineering.

3:22

It keeps discussions focused, context is right there,

3:26

and you can catch up only on what matters to you.

3:29

You don't feel buried.

3:30

And about quick chats, yeah,

3:31

you can absolutely have a general stream or social stream

3:34

for that water cooler stuff.

3:35

The genius is, those casual chats don't bury

3:39

your critical project discussions.

3:42

Information becomes accessible, searchable,

3:45

not just something that scrolls away.

3:46

That library analogy really helps it click.

3:48

And yeah, the idea of not having important stuff buried

3:51

under, I don't know, cat memes.

3:53

That's very appealing.

3:54

It sounds like it hits a major pain point.

3:56

Information overload, context switching.

3:58

So who's actually using this?

3:59

Who finds this approach valuable?

4:01

Is it just for certain kinds of teams?

4:03

Actually, its reach is surprisingly broad.

4:06

That's one of the compelling things.

4:07

It's not just small startups.

4:08

We're talking Fortune 500 companies,

4:10

major open source projects,

4:12

thousands of other organizations using it daily.

4:15

That structured approach scales really well.

4:17

Fortune 500s, okay, that's interesting.

4:19

So we've got the concept, but the real proof is,

4:21

in the trenches, can you share some specific examples,

4:25

real world cases from the sources

4:27

that show the impact of this design

4:29

across different types of users?

4:30

Yeah, definitely.

4:31

Let's look at the business world first.

4:34

There's iDrift AS, a company with distributed teams.

4:38

They found Zulip enabled

4:39

efficient distributed team management.

4:42

And their co-founder said something really interesting.

4:44

Using Zulip significantly increases the size of the team

4:48

for which a manager can meaningfully know what's going on.

4:50

Wow, okay, that's a big claim.

4:52

Empowering leaders for bigger distributed teams.

4:55

Exactly, because the communication

4:56

is just so much more organized.

4:58

Then you have Semsey, they're an insurance tech.

5:00

They flat out said they found Zulip

5:02

more efficient than Slack for organizing communication.

5:05

Their director of engineering actually said,

5:07

I don't like going back to Slack now.

5:09

That's quite the statement, suggests a real shift.

5:12

It really does.

5:14

And Atolio, an AI company, their CEO stressed how

5:18

the first class threads are absolutely

5:20

critical to how we work.

5:21

For them, it's fundamental.

5:23

Even Endpoint Dev, managing hundreds of projects,

5:26

found the UI easy for that complexity.

5:28

Speaks volumes about its design for scale.

5:30

Those are strong business cases, especially

5:33

that don't like going back to Slack comment.

5:35

What about open source and communities?

5:37

That's all about distributed async work.

5:39

Absolutely essential there.

5:41

The rest language community is a prime example.

5:43

They saw a huge jump in decision making speed.

5:45

The quote is amazing.

5:47

Decisions that were blocked for months on GitHub

5:49

were resolved within 24 hours on Zulip.

5:51

24 hours down from months.

5:54

Yeah.

5:54

Think about that impact on getting things done.

5:57

It's about getting the right people focused on a topic.

6:00

Clearly laying out the discussion,

6:02

making sure everyone sees the latest without getting lost.

6:04

That's huge for project velocity.

6:06

Definitely.

6:06

And then there's the Recurse Center,

6:08

the programmer retreat.

6:08

They've used Zulip since way back in 2013

6:11

for their global community shows its staying power.

6:14

And it's big in education and research too.

6:16

Structured communication is vital there.

6:18

TUM in Germany uses it for organized chat

6:21

for thousands of students.

6:23

UCSD uses it as a communication hub across six continents.

6:27

Wow, across continents.

6:29

Yeah, really global collaboration.

6:30

Even the lean mathematical community

6:32

uses it for research collaboration at scale.

6:35

These are highly technical, precise discussions

6:38

where clarity is just paramount.

6:40

OK, so we're seeing it used everywhere from businesses

6:42

managing huge projects to global research communities.

6:45

What does this all boil down to for a listener?

6:47

Someone trying to pick a tool, maybe feeling overwhelmed

6:50

by information overload?

6:51

All right, this is where it gets really interesting for anyone

6:53

feeling that pain.

6:54

Zulip simplifies knowledge management almost,

6:57

automatically.

6:59

It creates an organized repository of knowledge

7:02

as a side effect.

7:03

As a side effect?

7:04

How so?

7:05

Because conversations are naturally structured

7:07

by topic from the start.

7:08

You're not just chatting.

7:10

You're actively building a searchable history

7:12

of discussions and decisions.

7:14

Unlike linear chat, where things just vanish upwards.

7:17

Yeah, try finding that decision from three weeks ago.

7:20

Exactly.

7:21

In Zulip, the structure is the organization.

7:23

It becomes your team's collective brain, easily

7:25

searchable.

7:26

You don't need a separate system to file things away.

7:29

It directly helps you get the knowledge you need quickly,

7:31

without feeling buried.

7:32

Imagine never having that, was that in Slack, or email,

7:36

or that Google Doc moment again.

7:38

That is a huge potential benefit.

7:40

Turning chat from noise into an actual asset.

7:44

Now you mentioned earlier Zulip is open source.

7:46

That term can sound a bit khaki, maybe intimidating for some.

7:50

What does being 100% open source actually

7:53

mean for how Zulip is developed?

7:55

And maybe more importantly for the users,

7:57

especially someone without a big IT department.

7:59

Yeah, it's a crucial aspect.

8:00

So 100% open source means all its code is public, transparent.

8:05

It uses the Apache 2.0 license, which is very permissive.

8:09

But it's not just about seeing the code.

8:11

It creates this amazing community-driven development.

8:13

Zulip has a really robust, active community

8:16

over 1,000 contributors worldwide.

8:19

More than 74 people have made over 100 code contributions

8:22

each.

8:22

That's a lot of involvement.

8:24

Wow.

8:24

They merge over 500 contributions

8:26

every single month.

8:27

It's actually called the largest and fastest growing open source

8:30

team chat project.

8:32

So what does that mean for you, the user?

8:34

First, no vendor lock-in.

8:36

You own your data.

8:37

You're not stuck with one company changing

8:38

prices or direction.

8:39

That's important.

8:40

Second, security and stability get a boost

8:42

from all those eyes reviewing the code.

8:44

Bugs get found and fixed fast.

8:46

Third, the project tends to be really responsive

8:48

because the users are the contributors often.

8:50

It gives you confidence it'll be around and keep improving

8:53

in ways users actually want.

8:55

That community power is impressive.

8:57

No lock-in is a big deal for businesses, too.

9:00

So for someone listening now, maybe a small business owner,

9:03

an educator starting a community,

9:06

how do they actually try Zulip?

9:08

Is it hard to set up if you're not super technical?

9:10

No, not necessarily.

9:12

They've made it quite accessible.

9:14

There are a few main options depending on your needs.

9:17

If you want ultimate control and compliance,

9:19

maybe you have strict data rules, you can self-host it.

9:22

They've worked hard to make installation and upgrades easy

9:25

on standard Linux, like Ubuntu, Debian,

9:28

or you can use Docker, which simplifies things a lot.

9:31

Docker helps, yeah.

9:32

And they even have pre-built images

9:33

for places like DigitalOcean or Render.

9:36

So you can get it running with just a few clicks,

9:38

even without being a Linux guru.

9:40

Full data ownership on your own server.

9:42

OK, so self-hosting is an option.

9:44

Maybe easier than people think.

9:45

What if you don't want to manage servers?

9:47

Then there's the cloud hosting solution straight

9:49

from the Zulip team that's super convenient.

9:51

You get all the features.

9:52

And importantly, they have tools to import your data

9:55

and integrations if you're moving from Slack

9:57

or somewhere else.

9:58

Makes switching easier.

10:00

Ah, import tools are key.

10:01

Definitely.

10:02

And another big point.

10:04

For most non-business uses, think nonprofits, governments,

10:09

education, they offer free or heavily discounted plans.

10:13

So it's incredibly accessible.

10:15

Honestly, the best way to check Zulip out,

10:16

just go visit the public Zulip community server itself.

10:19

See how they use topics, explore the discussions,

10:22

get a real feel for it.

10:23

Right, see it in action.

10:24

Good tip.

10:25

OK, so let's quickly recap this deep dive.

10:28

Zulip's unique thing is that topic-based threading.

10:30

It turns messy chat into organized async communication,

10:36

which makes it useful pretty much everywhere.

10:37

Big companies, open source projects, schools, researchers.

10:41

Right across the board.

10:42

And being open source gives it that community strength,

10:44

flexibility, and long-term security.

10:47

Which leads to a really important question

10:48

for you listening.

10:50

How could a tool like this, one designed for structure, one

10:52

that builds knowledge automatically,

10:54

how could that change your specific workflow,

10:56

your team, your community?

10:58

What problems might it solve that maybe you haven't even

11:00

thought about solving with just a different chat tool?

11:03

Exactly.

11:03

Here's a final thought to mull over.

11:05

How much time, how much clarity, how much focus

11:07

could you actually gain by moving away

11:09

from those fragmented linear chats

11:11

towards something more organized, more context rich,

11:14

like Zulip?

11:15

What could your team or community

11:16

do if its knowledge was just effortlessly structured

11:19

and accessible instead of loss scrolling back through history?

11:23

Our deep dive today was supported by Safe Server.

11:25

For secure software hosting and digital transformation support

11:28

do visit www.safeserver.de.

11:28

do visit www.safeserver.de.