Today's Deep-Dive: C3S

Welcome back, everybody, to another Deep Dive.

And today we're gonna be looking into something

that could really change the future of music.

It's called C3S.

You actually sent me over some research on this,

and I gotta say, it's really fascinating stuff.

Yeah, it's exciting stuff to think about.

Imagine if you had one organization

that could handle music rights for songs,

whether they were released under traditional copyright

or Creative Commons licenses,

or even just those free-to-use tracks that you find online,

and that's what C3S is trying to do.

It's a European cooperative.

It's like a one-stop shop for music rights.

But how is this different from the big

traditional music rights organizations,

the ones we've all heard of?

Well, I think the main difference is that

it really tries to put the power back

in the hands of the artists.

With those traditional organizations,

they can feel like these big black boxes.

Oh yeah, I know what you mean.

You don't really know what's going on.

How is your music being used?

How am I being compensated?

C3S is designed to be really transparent and democratic.

So every member, and that means the musicians themselves,

they all get an equal vote in how the organization is run.

That's pretty different.

It's not like the old way where it's all about gatekeepers.

Exactly.

And you have to jump through all these hoops

just to get your music heard or licensed.

But how does that actually work?

I mean, can artists actually choose

which works they want C3S to manage?

Yeah, totally.

There's no requirement that you have to give them

all of your music.

You could have some of your music

with a traditional publisher,

maybe like your more commercial stuff.

And then have C3S handle, say, your experimental tracks

that you release under a Creative Commons license.

That kind of flexibility you just don't really see

in the traditional music industry.

Yeah, that level of control must be really empowering

for artists, especially ones who are just straightening out

or who wanna kind of experiment

with different licensing models.

Almost like leveling the playing field a little bit.

Yeah, that's a good way to put it.

And this whole idea of challenging the status quo,

it actually reminds me of something

that composer Hans Sommer said way back in the day.

And I might be paraphrasing a bit,

but he basically called musicians wage slaves

to the big publishers.

Wage slaves. Yeah.

That's pretty strong. Yeah, it is.

Really shows you that power dynamic

that C3S is trying to kind of push back against.

Exactly, and one of the main ways they're doing that

is by really focusing on the digital landscape.

And that means focusing on online and live licensing.

That's where a lot of independent artists

are finding their audience these days.

Right, and it makes sense too.

Think of how much music we consume online.

Right.

Through streaming services, through YouTube,

even in video games.

It's a huge market.

Yeah, absolutely.

And it's only growing.

So they're really tapping into something

that maybe the traditional organizations

have been slow to adapt to.

Yeah, I think so.

You know, their forward-thinking approach,

it doesn't stop there.

Because while they are focusing on online and live initially,

they're also planning to expand into B2B licensing, which

is music used in commercial settings like advertising

or corporate videos, things like that.

And then also what's called mechanical licensing.

Hold on, now before we go any further, can we back up a sec?

What is mechanical licensing?

Because some of our listeners might not

be familiar with that term.

Yeah, so basically, it's the right

to reproduce and distribute a musical work.

So any time a song is streamed, downloaded, or pressed

onto a physical CD, you need a mechanical license.

It's a pretty big part of how the music industry makes money.

So they're trying to handle all these different types

of licensing.

And as a nonprofit, that seems really ambitious.

Like, how are they going to do all that?

I mean, just the thought of trying

to track music usage across all these different platforms,

that sounds like a logistical nightmare.

Well, that's where technology really comes in.

They believe in using technology, and especially

open source software, to kind of automate a lot of that work.

They're developing systems to track, to monitor,

report music usage across all these different platforms,

and then streamline the whole licensing and billing process

as well.

So they're cutting out the middleman, cutting out the cost.

So it benefits the artists.

It benefits the people who are using their music.

That's pretty smart.

Yeah, and it's not just about the nuts and bolts

of rights management.

They're also committed to supporting

cultural projects and educational programs related

to copyright.

So they're going beyond just the business side of things,

really trying to foster a better environment for creativity.

Exactly.

OK, now you mentioned that a lot of this philosophy

is laid out in something called the Cultural Commons

Manifesto, right?

Yes.

OK, so let's dive into that.

What are some of the key ideas or statements

from this manifesto that really stand out to you?

Well, one of the big ones is that art in general

belongs to all humans alike, and all humans

have the same right to their own contribution

to the cultural commons.

That's a pretty bold statement, and it really

speaks to their commitment to democratizing creativity.

That's a nice thought, and it almost

reminds you of the open source movement in software

development, where it's all about collaboration

and shared ownership.

Exactly, and another line that caught my attention

is that trading works of art should

be a means to support creating art, preserving art,

and making art available to as many people as possible.

They're basically saying that making money from art

shouldn't overshadow the art itself.

It's all about finding the right balance.

So the market should serve art, not the other way around.

But how realistic is that in today's world,

where everything seems to be about profit?

It's a complex issue, and people are

going to have different perspectives on that.

But they're encouraging an open and honest dialogue.

They say that, and this is another quote,

criticism is most welcome and important,

but it should not be based on mere ideology,

be it new ideas or old practices.

I like that.

Let's have a real conversation, but keep it constructive.

Exactly.

That kind of open-mindedness is so refreshing,

especially in an industry that can be so slow to change.

Yeah, and I think that's one of the most interesting things

about C3S, because they're not just offering

a new way of doing things.

They're challenging us to rethink the very foundation

of how we create, how we share, and how we value

music in the 21st century.

So trying to bridge the gap between those idealistic visions

of a thriving artistic community and the reality of how do we

operate in a market-driven system.

Exactly.

But we've talked a lot about their philosophy.

We've talked about the potential benefits.

What about the challenges?

What are some of the potential downsides?

Well, I think every new idea has its own set

of complications.

And I think one of the concerns might be,

can a nonprofit model really be sustainable in the long run?

Especially as they grow.

They're going to need to find a way to generate enough revenue

to cover their costs, but without making it

too expensive for the artist to participate.

And what about enforcement?

Can an organization like C3S actually

monitor copyright infringements on such a big scale?

The internet is huge.

Yeah, that's another big one.

It's going to take a lot of technology and partnerships

to really track usage and protect their members.

They might have to come up with some pretty sophisticated

algorithms and data analysis tools

to spot unauthorized use.

And they'll definitely have to work with legal experts

and enforcement agencies to take action.

So they're going up against some really big players

in the music industry, the ones who

have a vested interest in keeping things the way they are.

They might not be too happy about C3S.

Yeah, that's true.

But sometimes it takes somebody small to shake things up, right?

It does.

And remember, it's not just about the technology for them.

They're building a community of artists

who are passionate about this mission.

And that's important.

If enough artists get on board, buy into this vision,

actively participate in C3S, that could really

be a force for change.

Absolutely.

There's power in numbers, especially when

you're going up against the establishment.

And going back to the manifesto, I

think it's interesting that they're not

afraid of constructive criticism.

Right.

Remember that line about criticism

not being based on just ideology?

They seem open to feedback.

Yes.

They're willing to adjust as they learn, which is encouraging.

Yeah, and it makes you think about how C3S

fits into this bigger picture.

We're seeing this rise of what they call the creator economy,

with more and more people finding ways

to make a living from their creativity

without having to go through the old gatekeeper.

And we see it everywhere.

Yes.

Patreon, Substack, Etsy.

It's really exciting to see.

Absolutely.

And I think C3S is tapping into that same energy.

They're giving artists a way to take control.

Right, to participate in this new digital marketplace

in a way that's fair and transparent.

It's like they're saying, the old model is broken.

Let's build something new.

Let's build something better.

But what do you think the impact of C3S

might be on the music industry as a whole?

Could they actually inspire other organizations

to rethink how they approach things like copyright

and how artists get paid?

It's possible.

These big disruptive innovations,

they often force the old guard to adapt.

Think about what happened to taxis

when Uber and Lyft came along.

It's a great analogy.

They completely changed the game.

Yeah, they did.

And I think C3S has the potential

to be that kind of game changer for the music world.

So they could be a real catalyst for change.

I think so.

But it's still early days, right?

It is.

And a lot depends on how well they attract members,

how they navigate the legal complexities,

and how they adapt as the digital landscape keeps

changing.

It's a lot to juggle.

But from what we've seen, they have a clear vision.

They're committed to their mission.

And they seem to be taking a very practical approach.

And they're really leaning into that technology piece?

Absolutely.

OK, so let's talk more about that technology,

because I think that's key to understanding

how they could be so different from the traditional way

of doing things.

What are some specific ways they're using technology

to make rights management more efficient?

Well, one of the big things is tracking music usage.

Think about all the different places

where music is played these days.

Streaming services, radio, TV, even background music

in stores.

Of course, yeah.

And the traditional organizations,

they often rely on manual reporting and sampling,

which can be not very accurate.

And that means artists might not be

getting paid what they deserve.

Exactly.

So C3S is looking at things like audio

fingerprinting and metadata analysis

to automatically track where and how often a song is played.

That kind of tech can give you much more accurate data

and make sure artists are compensated fairly.

So much more efficient.

But what about the licensing process itself?

Isn't that still a big headache?

It can be.

But C3S is trying to streamline that, too,

by using smart contracts and blockchain technology.

Hold on, blockchain.

Yeah.

Like Bitcoin.

That's right.

It's still pretty new, but it has the potential

to completely change how we think

about contracts and ownership.

With C3S, it could let artists set their own, maybe even

cut out the middleman altogether.

Wow.

So you're saying that an artist could upload their music,

set their licensing terms using this smart contract,

and then just get paid automatically every time

their music is used.

That's the idea.

It's almost like science fiction.

I know, right?

But it's happening now.

I'm really certain to see how C3S could give artists

so much more power.

What's the most impactful thing about C3S for you?

It's the combination of their social mission

and their practical approach.

They're not just talking about ideals.

They're actually building the systems to make it happen.

And they're not just jumping on the latest tech trends.

They're being thoughtful about how they use technology

and making sure it aligns with their values.

Exactly.

And this could have ripple effects

throughout the whole music industry.

Right.

If C3S can show that a more efficient and transparent system

is possible, it could force the traditional organizations

to up their game.

I think so.

It's like they're setting a new standard.

Do you think other creative industries could

learn from their model?

I think so.

A lot of the challenges musicians face,

like fair compensation, control over their work, access

to markets, other creators face those same challenges.

It makes you wonder if we could see similar cooperatives

for writers, filmmakers, visual artists, maybe even software

developers.

Yeah, it's definitely possible.

And if they can use technology the same way C3S is doing,

it could really shift the balance of power

in those industries.

It's pretty exciting.

It is.

We've covered a lot of ground today

from how C3S is approaching music rights

to their vision for a more equitable creative ecosystem.

What's your final takeaway for our listeners today?

I'd say keep an eye on C3S.

They're just getting started, but they

represent a potential paradigm shift

in how we think about creating, sharing, and owning music.

What they do could have a big impact

on the future of the music industry and maybe even beyond.

It's a story worth following.

And it's not just about music.

It's about the bigger fight for artists and creators

to have more control and be fairly compensated

for their work.

Absolutely.

It's about making a better future for creativity.

Beautifully put.

And as you come across new creative works, a song, a film,

a piece of writing, ask yourself, who benefits from this?

And how can we make sure those benefits are shared fairly

and sustainably?

That's a great thought to leave our listeners with.

Thanks for joining us on this deep dive into C3S.

We'll be back soon with another fascinating exploration

of a topic that's shaping the future.

Until then, keep learning, keep questioning,

and keep creating.

And it really speaks to their commitment to democratizing

creativity.

That's a nice thought.

And it almost reminds me of the open source movement

in software development, where it's all about collaboration

and shared ownership.

Exactly.

And another line that caught my attention is that,

trading works of art should be a means

to support creating art, preserving art,

and making art available to as many people as possible.

They're basically saying that making money from art

shouldn't overshadow the art itself.

It's all about finding the right balance.

So the market should serve art, not the other way around.

But how realistic is that in today's world, where everything

seems to be about profit?

It's a complex issue, and people are

going to have different perspectives on that.

But they're encouraging an open and honest dialogue.

They say that, and this is another quote,

criticism is most welcome and important,

but it should not be based on mere ideology,

be it new ideas or old practices.

I like that.

Let's have a real conversation, but keep it constructive.

Exactly.

That kind of open-mindedness is so refreshing,

especially in an industry that can be so slow to change.

Yeah, and I think that's one of the most interesting things

about C3S, because they're not just offering

a new way of doing things.

They're challenging us to rethink the very foundation

of how we create, how we share, and how we value

music in the 21st century.

So trying to bridge the gap between those idealistic

visions of a thriving artistic community,

and the reality of how do we operate

in a market-driven system.

Exactly.

But we've talked a lot about their philosophy.

We've talked about the potential benefits.

What about the challenges?

What are some of the potential downsides?

Well, I think every new idea

has its own set of complications.

And I think one of the concerns might be,

can a non-profit model really be sustainable

in the long run, especially as they grow?

They're gonna need to find a way to generate

enough revenue to cover their costs

but without making it too expensive

for the artist to participate.

And what about enforcement?

I mean, can an organization like C3S

actually monitor copyright infringements

on such a big scale?

I mean, the internet is huge.

Yeah, that's another big one.

It's gonna take a lot of technology and partnerships

to really track usage and protect their members.

They might have to come up with

some pretty sophisticated algorithms

and data analysis tools to spot unauthorized use.

And they'll definitely have to work with legal experts

and enforcement agencies to take action.

So they're going up against some really big players

in the music industry.

I mean, the ones who have a vested interest

in keeping things the way they are,

they might not be too happy about C3S.

Yeah, that's true.

But sometimes it takes somebody small

to shake things up, right?

And it does.

And remember, it's not just about the technology for them.

They're building a community of artists

who are passionate about this mission.

And that's important.

If enough artists get on board, buy into this vision,

actively participate in C3S,

that could really be a force for change.

Absolutely.

There's power in numbers,

especially when you're going up against the establishment.

I'm going back to the manifesto.

I think it's interesting that they're not afraid

of constructive criticism.

Remember that line about criticism

not being based on just ideology?

Yeah.

They seem open to feedback.

Yes.

They're willing to adjust.

They are.

As they learn.

Yeah.

Which is encouraging.

Yeah, and it makes you think about how C3S

fits into this bigger picture.

We're seeing this rise of what they call

the creator economy with more and more people

finding ways to make a living from their creativity

without having to go through the old gatekeepers.

And we see it everywhere.

Yes.

Patreon, Substack, Etsy.

It's really exciting to see.

Absolutely, and I think C3S is tapping

into that same energy.

They're giving artists a way to take control,

to participate in this new digital marketplace

in a way that's fair and transparent.

It's like they're saying the old model is broken.

Yeah.

Let's build something new.

Let's build something better.

Yes.

But what do you think the impact of C3S

might be on the music industry as a whole?

Could they actually inspire other organizations

to rethink how they approach things like copyright

and how artists get paid?

It's possible.

These big disruptive innovations,

they often force the old guard to adapt.

Right.

Think about what happened to taxis

when Uber and Lyft came along.

It's a great analogy.

They completely changed the game.

Yeah, they did.

And I think C3S has the potential

to be that kind of game changer for the music world.

So they could be a real catalyst for change.

I think so.

But it's still early days.

I think so.

A lot depends on how well they attract members.

Yes.

How they navigate the legal complexities.

Right.

And how they adapt as the digital landscape keeps changing.

It's a lot to juggle.

But from what we've seen, they have a clear vision.

They're committed to their mission.

And they seem to be taking a very practical approach.

And they're really leaning into that technology piece.

Absolutely.

OK, so let's talk more about that technology.

Because I think that's key to understanding

how they could be so different from the traditional way

of doing things.

What are some specific ways they're using technology

to make rights management more efficient?

Well, one of the big things is tracking music usage.

Think about all the different places

where music is played these days.

Streaming services, radio, TV, even background music

in stores.

Oh, of course.

And the traditional organizations,

they often rely on manual reporting and sampling,

which can be not very accurate.

And that means artists might not be

getting paid what they deserve.

Exactly.

So C3S is looking at things like audio fingerprinting

and metadata analysis to automatically track

where and how often a song is played.

That kind of tech can give you much more accurate data

and make sure artists are compensated fairly.

So much more efficient.

Yeah.

But what about the licensing process itself?

Isn't that still a big headache?

It can be.

But C3S is trying to streamline that, too,

by using smart contracts and blockchain technology.

Hold on.

Blockchain, like Bitcoin.

That's right.

It's still pretty new, but it has the potential

to completely change how we think about contracts

and ownership.

With C3S, it could let artists set their own licensing terms

and conditions, maybe even cut out the middleman altogether.

Wow.

So you're saying that an artist could upload their music,

set their licensing terms using this smart contract,

and then just get paid automatically

every time their music is used.

That's the idea.

It's almost like science fiction.

I know, right?

But it's happening.

Now I'm really starting to see how C3S could give artists

so much more power.

What's the most impactful thing about C3S for you?

For me, it's that combination of their social mission

and their practical approach.

They're not just talking about ideals.

They're actually building the systems to make it happen.

And they're not just jumping on the latest tech trends.

No.

They're being thoughtful about how they use technology

and making sure it aligns with their value.

Exactly.

And this could have ripple effects

throughout the whole music industry.

Right.

If C3S can show that a more efficient and transparent system

is possible, it could force the traditional organizations

to up their game.

I think so.

It's like they're setting a new standard.

Do you think other creative industries could

learn from their model?

I think so.

A lot of the challenges musicians face,

like fair compensation control over their work,

access to markets, other creators

face those same challenges.

It makes you wonder if we could see similar cooperatives

for writers, filmmakers, visual artists, maybe even

software developers.

Yeah.

It's definitely possible.

And if they can use technology the same way C3S is doing,

it could really shift the balance of power

in those industries.

It's pretty exciting.

It is.

We've covered a lot of ground today

from how C3S is approaching music rights

to their vision for a more equitable, creative ecosystem.

What's your final takeaway for our listeners today?

I'd say keep an eye on C3S.

They're just getting started, but they

represent a potential paradigm shift

in how we think about creating, sharing, and owning music.

What they do could have a big impact

on the future of the music industry

and maybe even beyond.

It's a story worth following.

And as we've talked about, it's not just about music.

It's about the fight for artists and creators

to have more control and to be compensated fairly

for their work.

Absolutely.

It's about building a more sustainable future

for all creative industries.

Very well said.

And as you come across new creative works,

maybe it's a song or a film, a piece of writing,

whatever it might be, ask yourself,

who benefits from this?

And how can we make sure that those benefits

are shared in a way that's fair and sustainable?

That's a great thought to leave our listeners with.

Thanks for joining me on this deep dive

into the world of C3S.

We'll be back soon with another fascinating look

Until then, keep learning, keep questioning,

Until then, keep learning, keep questioning,