Today's Deep-Dive: Holzmarkt25
Ep. 19

Today's Deep-Dive: Holzmarkt25

Episode description

This episode explores the story of Holzmarkt 25, a unique space in Berlin with a rich history. Once a timber market, it later became a gasworks, a dumping ground, and eventually the site of a legendary techno club, Bar 25. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, many empty spaces were reclaimed by locals, and Holzmarkt 25 emerged through a movement called interim use—where abandoned areas were temporarily used for creative and communal projects.

The space transformed into something permanent and special, thanks to a cooperative called the Genossenschaft für urbane Kreativität eG (gukeg). This cooperative model allowed residents, artists, and entrepreneurs to share ownership, reflecting their commitment to community and creativity. Their vision also included keeping the Spree Riverfront public, resisting privatization common in many cities.

Holzmarkt 25 is now a thriving, sustainable ecosystem, with over 100 cooperative members who have a say in its operations. Its model has resonated worldwide, though its success is closely tied to Berlin’s unique history. The essence of Holzmarkt—community, sustainability, and creativity—could be applied in other cities, reminding us of the power of grassroots movements and collective effort.

The conversation concludes with a question: What could a space like Holzmarkt 25 look like in your city?

Download transcript (.srt)
0:00

Okay, so you've probably heard people talking about this place, Holstmark 25, right?

0:05

Yeah, it's been popping up all over the place.

0:07

It's like this mysterious spot in Berlin that everyone says you have to see, but what is it really?

0:13

Right, like what's the big deal?

0:15

That's what we're going to find out in this deep dive, right?

0:17

What makes Holstmark what it is?

0:18

Yeah, Holstmark 25 is not like your average tourist spot.

0:21

It's more like, you know, when you wander off the beaten path and stumble on something amazing?

0:25

Yeah, yeah.

0:26

Like a hidden village or something.

0:27

Right in the middle of the city.

0:29

Okay, I'm intrigued.

0:30

But before we get ahead of ourselves, I'm curious about the name Holstmark.

0:35

Like, what's the story there?

0:36

Oh, it's German.

0:39

I figured as much.

0:40

It means timber market.

0:41

Timber market, okay.

0:42

So was this place once like a lumber yard or something?

0:45

Yeah, way back when.

0:46

That's exactly what it was.

0:47

A bustling hub for the timber trade.

0:50

But hold on, because it doesn't stop there.

0:53

Oh, there's more.

0:54

Oh, yeah.

0:55

This plot of land has seen a lot of changes over the years.

0:58

It went from a timber market to a gasworks.

1:01

Can you believe that?

1:02

No.

1:02

And then, get ready for this, it became a dumping ground.

1:06

Oh, wow.

1:08

And if that's not enough, it even housed a legendary

1:11

Techno Club Bar 25.

1:13

Talk about a wild ride.

1:15

From a neglected industrial site to a cultural hotspot,

1:19

how did this transformation even happen?

1:21

Well, after the Berlin Wall came down,

1:23

the city was full of these empty spaces, right?

1:25

Yeah.

1:26

And people were just itching to do something with them.

1:28

So instead of big developers coming in and throwing up

1:31

condos.

1:31

Exactly.

1:32

People were like, we can make this place our own.

1:35

This movement emerged called interim use,

1:37

where people would start these temporary projects

1:40

in abandoned buildings and vacant lots.

1:42

So it was a way of reclaiming the city.

1:44

Yeah.

1:45

And Holds Mark 25 is a perfect example

1:47

of how something temporary can turn into something

1:49

really special and permanent.

1:51

It's amazing how these grassroots movements

1:53

can have such a lasting impact.

1:55

So are you saying that Holds Mark wouldn't exist

1:58

if it weren't for this interim use thing?

2:00

Well, there's no saying for sure,

2:02

but it definitely played a huge role.

2:05

See, there were actually these massive development

2:07

plans for this spree riverfront called Media Spree.

2:10

But the locals, they weren't having it.

2:12

They saw it as this top-down approach that would

2:15

strip the area of its character.

2:17

Yeah, I can see why people would push back against that.

2:19

So they fought back.

2:21

I bet they did.

2:22

And I'm guessing they didn't want

2:23

to see it turned into another shopping mall.

2:25

You got it.

2:26

They wanted something different, something

2:27

that reflected their values.

2:29

And that's where the story of the cooperative

2:32

begins, the heart and soul of Holtzmart.

2:35

OK, we've got this prime location

2:37

on the Spree, a community passionate

2:38

about shaping its future.

2:40

And now this cooperative enters the scene, right?

2:43

This feels important.

2:44

It's huge, this cooperative.

2:46

It's called the Genozen Shaft for Urbane Creativity,

2:49

or Gouquet for short.

2:50

Gouquet.

2:50

It's a mouthful, I know.

2:51

What does it mean?

2:52

Cooperative for urban creativity.

2:55

And it's more than just a name.

2:56

It's a way of life.

2:58

So it's not just about renting a space to the highest bidder.

3:01

This is about shared ownership.

3:03

Exactly.

3:04

It's about people coming together, entrepreneurs,

3:07

artists, residents, all pooling their resources

3:10

to build something they believe in.

3:12

I'm picturing a big join the cooperative banner right now.

3:16

You know what?

3:16

You actually can.

3:17

It's open to anyone who shares their vision.

3:19

It's about investing in a future where creativity and community

3:24

are paramount.

3:25

This sounds like one of those things you have to see to believe.

3:28

So paint me a picture.

3:30

What's it like to actually step into Holesmark 25?

3:33

Imagine you wander down these cobblestone streets, right?

3:37

And the air is filled with this smell of fresh bread and music

3:42

from a nearby cafe.

3:43

So it's like this hipster paradise.

3:45

It's more than that, though.

3:46

It really is.

3:46

Remember those sources you were talking about?

3:48

Yeah.

3:48

The stuff from Holesmark themselves and the Gouquet?

3:50

Right, right.

3:51

They actually provide some really interesting insights,

3:53

like behind the scenes.

3:54

OK.

3:55

They're thinking about keeping the Spree Riverfront public.

3:57

Oh, yeah.

3:57

That's a big deal, because a lot of cities

3:59

end up privatizing their waterfronts.

4:02

It ends up only being for the select few who can afford it.

4:05

Exactly.

4:06

And Holesmark is fighting against that, which

4:08

I think is pretty cool.

4:10

They're making sure everyone can enjoy the river.

4:13

They back up their words with action, too.

4:15

I like that.

4:16

And the urban development assessment that we saw,

4:19

it's really detailed.

4:20

They really thought this through.

4:22

So it's not just some happy accident.

4:23

No, they had a vision.

4:25

It's all about sustainability and community.

4:28

And they're not afraid to share how they did it.

4:30

It's nice to see that balance, you know?

4:33

Free spirit with the practicality

4:35

of sustainability.

4:37

And you know, the UK, the sustainability

4:39

isn't just about the environment.

4:41

It's got to be something that works financially and socially,

4:43

too.

4:44

So they want to create a viable alternative

4:46

to the typical way of doing things.

4:48

Yeah, and they're doing it.

4:49

This isn't some pipe dream.

4:51

Holesmark is thriving.

4:53

It's an ecosystem where the businesses actually

4:55

support each other.

4:56

I love that, a self-sustaining cycle of creativity

5:00

and community.

5:00

And get this, they have all these income screams,

5:02

everything from like you buying a cup of coffee to events

5:06

to the UK members themselves.

5:08

Speaking of which, what is it actually

5:10

like to be a part of this Go-K cooperative?

5:14

Is it like as amazing as it sounds?

5:17

Well, it's more than just giving them money.

5:19

You actually get a say in how things are run.

5:21

Oh, wow.

5:21

So it's a real investment in the future of Holsmart.

5:24

Exactly.

5:25

Members can go to meetings, have discussions,

5:27

really be a part of shaping Holsmart.

5:30

That's so cool.

5:31

But on the financial side of things, how does it work?

5:34

Do people get something back for investing?

5:37

That's where the cooperative share comes in.

5:39

You invest, and they've structured it

5:41

so that the project is financially stable

5:44

and the members get a return on their investment.

5:47

So it's not just an act of charity.

5:48

It's a true partnership.

5:50

Yeah, and they've found that sweet spot

5:52

between sticking to their vision

5:54

and having a head for business.

5:56

Which is not an easy thing to do.

5:58

No, not at all.

5:59

And the fact that they have over 100 members

6:01

from all over the world says something, doesn't it?

6:04

It really does.

6:05

It shows that their model is resonating

6:06

with people who want something different.

6:08

So it makes you wonder though,

6:10

is Holsmart a one-hit wonder?

6:12

Can this be replicated somewhere else

6:13

or is it just too connected to Berlin?

6:15

It's like, can you bottle that magic

6:18

and take it somewhere else?

6:19

Right, is Holsmart something

6:21

you can just replicate anywhere?

6:22

It's tough to say for sure.

6:25

Berlin has that whole post-war history,

6:27

the interim use movement, all of that.

6:29

So you can't just like copy and paste it

6:31

to a different city and expect it to work.

6:33

Exactly, every city is different, right?

6:35

What works in Berlin might not work in London or New York.

6:38

But.

6:39

There's always a but.

6:39

Right, but even though the details might be different,

6:42

the heart of Holsmart, that commitment to community,

6:45

to sustainability, to creativity, that's universal.

6:48

So it's more about capturing the essence

6:50

of what they've created and finding ways to adapt it.

6:52

Yeah, it's about figuring out what resonates with us

6:56

about Holsmart and seeing how we can apply those lessons

6:59

in our own cities.

7:00

So it's like taking a seed and planting it in new soil,

7:03

letting it grow into something new,

7:05

but with that same core idea.

7:07

Exactly, and it reminds us that these things take time.

7:10

You need people working together and a lot of passion.

7:13

Holsmart 25, it's not just an address in Berlin,

7:16

it's like this example of what we can do

7:18

when we put community, creativity, and sustainability first.

7:22

They've shown that there's another way to do things

7:24

and that's a powerful message.

7:25

It's inspiring.

7:27

What could a Holsmart look like in your city?

7:29

What could you create if everyone worked together?

7:32

And as always, keep diving deep.

7:32

And as always, keep diving deep.